Class Act: Lets Make a Strategy Thread: HC edition

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lightwolf
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Class Act: Lets Make a Strategy Thread: HC edition

Post by lightwolf » Thu Jan 03, 2013 7:26 pm

It's about time to make a Class Act strategy thread!

4 Day seems possible, but there seems to be a large amount of swing for every run. So this thread is going to focus on exploring consistent 5 day runs for each class. Five day runs means we have an excess of faxes, arrows, and other one day buffs which can help us speed up things in a way we usually don't get to experiment with.

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TLDR

Class Act:
Seems to be defined by juggling niche familiar uses, while generating consumables.
Each Class fights differently! Quest differences are relatively minor though... (Resist? HP?)

Seal Clubber:
Revolves around MP and meat management
Strength: High HP and Damage
Weakness: Survivability at high ML is easy but expensive.

Turtle Tamer:
Easiest class both in combat, resources and convenience
Strength: Familiar utility. Easy Auto hit combat. Solid Defense
Weakness: None

Sauceror:
Bottle necks at HP and ini. Make good use of daily limited buffs
Strength: Plenty of MP, Consistent auto hit Damage
Weakness: Low HP makes surviving a hit the biggest challenge

Pastamancer
Getting the jump, and spell selection
Strength: High damage spells, stun without resource, Familiar buff
Weakness: Low HP, Pasta Summons Rng based, boring

Accordion Thieves
Song juggling, getting more out of less, plink plink plink
Strength: Turn gen and turn reduction skills
Weakness: No way to consistently attack ML above your own stats

Disco Bandit
Getting drunk, putting enemies down, then punching them
Strength: Smooth Movement, Strong De-levels, potential unarmed bonus
Weakness: "Define Interesting"

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This is me trying to remember how to play HC. Looking for proper advice/corrections to the 5 day strat. This list is incomplete and will be updated around building a base strat for all classes.

Astral
Energy drinks still generate a butt load of turns. But your expected food and booze filler is a lot lower than in other runs. Spleen is also easier to come by since it drops 4 fullness at a time in short order. So Pilsner or Hotdogs may be the more valid choice. The stats from Hotdog may save a significant amount of turns power leveling.

+ML early on is not very plausible without heavy resource use, but having the ML for the relevant quest can be helpful. Myst classes are generally fine on MP, so astral ring may be over kill. Doing it again, I'd give stronger consideration to Astral mask. TT could handle Belt easily. SC was just fun to have Astral Bludgeon but it was replaced.

Ice Ice Baby
Double Ice hat is great quality of life in HC. The stun allows classes that otherwise don't have stuns (everyone not PM) to get two actions off. This makes the difference between handling a large amount of ML early in the run. Generating a lot (20+) of finger cuffs is also not a bad idea. But familiar usage can be tight.

Double Ice Pants are great on the Scarecrow as both a Volly/Lep and damage dealer. If you can push yourself on MP management/meat usage then this may be a more valuable Ice make then the hat.


Garden:
Skeletons vs Pepermint
It seems easy to over generate turns for a 5 day run. But Having 6 liver worth of peppermint booze can decrease the time you would run Small Medium. The biggest difference between the two is day 1 turn generation which can make or break day 1 Steel. The skiff isn't all that impressive but it is turns saved vs turn gen. So if you are over generating turns from your goal...

Of note, unless you are an AT, making those peppermint drinks cost 12-15 turns of crafting (+turn count).

Faxs:
1. Moxie/TT: Sleepy Mariachi (Low weight makes spangle rack unimpressive compared to frilly)
Myst classes: LFM (finger cuffs... get the other 4 with angel later on)
Seal Clubber: ??? (fax kge, then use semi rare for consumables?)
2. Pervert* (Pretty obvious turn savings)
3. Snowman Assasins* (No +combat, so only way to see them. Beware killing them before arrow)
4. LFM* (No +combat, so pretty big turn save)
5. Utility (Tower item, Fax you screwed up, yellow ray target)
*Arrow

Arrow
1. ??? (Scream bat maybe?, Bricko Bat or Ozze?)
2-4. Arrow the relevant Fax (pervert, Assassin, LFM)
5. ???

Yellow Ray
D1. If moxie class: Sleeping Mariachi
D1b. Bean bat. Possibly Harem girl if you have disease as a tower item... but don't skip KGE outfit.
D2. Normal hippy outfit
D3. Ketchuphound/stunt nuts.
D4. Frat War outfit
D5. tower item? Ketchup hound? lower case n?

There are a lot of times you want a 30% drop in a bad spot with low +item (lower case N, ketchup hound). You have 5-10 yellow rays for this run! Spread them out.

Semi Rares: (turn gen or quest?)
1. KGE (Alternatively farm the KGE, and tasty tart semi rare. Depends on Setting ballroom song or not)
2. Baa (Or put this off till later, so you can use more runaways here)
3. ???
4. Cyclopes eye drops

Wine and Tasty tarts can be decent for turn gen runs. Could also potentially help a lot in making day 1 Liver. In theory though, the other semi rare choices save as many turns as the consumables generate over what you'd normally eat.

Clover:
1. TT/AT/S = Big Rock (Epic weapon)
2-4. Ore
5. Boo Clue
6. South of border
7. Leftovers / Black pepper?
*: Would you clover for sonars compared to those other clovers?

Clip Art:
1. Turn gen (Time halo, bucket of wine, Borrowed Time)
2. Familiar gear. (Sugar shield for runaways and parrot. Quake of arrows.)
3. Ultra Fondue (High turn gen and +ML for quest) or Crystal Skull

Don't need quake until faxing perverts/LFM. Use Fondue for crypt, oily peak.

Familiars
* Groose (until 3 spleen drops)
* Organ grinder (Try to get 3 boss pies. Get baron day 1)
* Small Medium (3-4 siphon. Giant = resist, Orc = Mus/HP, Demon/undead = Dam, Pirate = Mox)
* Rouge Program (Finger cuffs! )
* Juan (1 Jar sometime, for the digital key. Farm a 2nd and keep trying to get jick jar to sell)
* Hipster (7 free fights. Use to burn delay turns / hidden city)
* Hatrack/Scarecrow (Frilly skirt first, spangle pants later)
* Angel, beholder, nanorhino (misc one use)
* Mimic (Want 2-3 polka pops. Fc'le, Filthworms, Star farming)

I have very little time for other familiars, while trying to max siphon drinks... Even more so if you don't take peppermint garden. Siphon drinks offer huge utility though.

Hipster or Mimic are the go to default familiars when everything else is not needed.

Non TT (PM?) classes will find the lack of familiar weight significant to their effectiveness. The frilly skirt probably beats the Spangle rack in this case.

Without Pepermint drinks, you probably are only generating 150 adv day 1, which makes usage very tight.


Consumables
Try to grind 3 boss pies, and siphon 3-4 drinks each day. The siphon drink buffs actually come in pretty handy. Demihuman (dwarf/giant) for elemental resist test (MT Large, Boo Clue, Twin Peaks). Orcs for +50 muscle and +HP. Demon/Undead for elemental damage that doubles against the counter part.

Food: 3 boss pies, 1-2 fortune cookies. That leaves 7-8 fullness. Ultra fondue is a pretty strong adv/turn summons. Grue egg is worth farming.

Booze: 3-4 siphons. CSA 1 fullness. Thats 7-9. Leaving 10-12 liver left! Theres another CSA 3 drink that's 3 adv/fullness. Pepermint could fill 6 of that, or skeleton drink could fill 3. You may need to end the day with a AA voucher drink. Or be a DB and make SAC's...


Daily deeds reminder
* Check Bounty Hunter for Airship, Giants, Triffilds
* Do DD at least once by day 3!
* Use first Astral Energy Drink by day 3! (Or don't take AED's...)
* Cold shower every day. Double Ice helm for everyone. The double ice pants are large +HP for non muscle classes.
* Friar buffs! (Booze for wines. Food for goats/wet stew. +Familiar exp buff otherwise)
* Hatter (+HP for Boo clue and myst classes)
* Use Rhino end of day for stat buff (Mus/mox classes)



* Swim buff (+ML or +NC!)
The +NC is highly valuable for reducing turns on several quest, and for mus/myst power leveling. The +ML buff is helpful for the Crypt and Oily peak quest.

The main decision to make is:
1. Do you want to put off the crypt in order to line up Crypt and Oily peak ML (delaying crypt boss/chest meat, and having less ML stats early on vs efficent use of buffs and more turn reduction in quest)
2. Do you want to NC a swim buff so you can use both the NC and the ML buff for the crypt.


Sir Robin
I've been ignoring the stomping boots since my TT run. But If I really mean to cut turns, I proably should make a sugar shield day 1, and use any familiar buffs I can get to get at least 4 runaways a day. I say this after spending 30 turns in the spooky forest in my SC run somehow... This means 1 less ultra fondue on day 1 however.

4-5 runaways a day adds up to 16-25 turns saved at the end of a 4 or 5 day run.


Quest buffs to Align
Elemental Resist: Twin peaks, Mt Huge Peak, Boo clue, Stench bats
Sources: Demi human siphon (+2), black paint (+2), Parrot(+1), Equip (Lich hat, Glowing Red Eye, Towel)
Note: Wait until Level 11! Black Market Unlock. You want over 300HP, at least 5 resist in Cold/Spooky, with an average of 7 between the two.

Item buffs:
Fc'le, Twin Peaks, Filth worms. (Star farming, Giants)
Sources: Baron Monocle, Larry glasses, Miners helm, Polka Pop, Peppermint/Skeleton

ML Buffs:
Ghoul Swarms, Oily Peak
Sources: Swim buff, Buged bugbear, Ultra fondue, Skeleton drink?

HP Buffs: Boo clue
Sources: Siphon orc, Hatter, Cold water?, Telescope?
Last edited by lightwolf on Sun Jan 20, 2013 3:24 am, edited 23 times in total.

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Re: Class Act: Lets Make a Strategy Thread: HC edition

Post by lightwolf » Thu Jan 03, 2013 7:34 pm

This is the consolidation of all subsequent post as my runs progress. This should make it easy for you to find the information you want without picking through the thread. I am also more likely to update and edit for readability this post, then my later post.

Class Act: Turtle Tamer
Hero and Tao makes it a pretty easy and fun play. Just buff muscle and smash things. Shield butt and finger cuffs to fight out of your league. Passive and buff familiar weight is probably one of the biggest boon's that you will notice the least, but it makes a huge difference for this compared to other classes.

The nano rhino passive (+25% muscle, +hp regen) is surprisingly effective even without worrying about the banish ability. You could use it as a 2nd banish combined with your class monkey, but it may be worth it for letting you fight higgher ML during the first few days.

The +50 elemental damage spirit drinks come in handy too. Since they do +100 damage against the right monsters (Ballroom/Friars/Crypt with +ML for instance) you can fight in that area a lot earlier and consistently kill things!

The spleen heal comes in handy the first few days, but doesn't seem needed later.

I wish I had remembered to make a double ice hat day 2 instead of late day 3. It probably should have replaced goblin king helm sooner. The stun saves more damage then the +10 to stat/hero does I think, and the extra MP helps you get some buffs up.

Tenacity is quite important to keep up, again even more so the first 2 days when you are going against more powerful monsters. I found it worth it to make the epic weapon for 10 turn buffs just because of how expensive the TT buffs are. But outside of that I'd have more MP then I need just with the CSA Fire start, and later the Double ice hat and spangly pants.

Haggis soap trivializes ghost encounters. You can use spectral snapper if you encounter a sleaze enemy while that buff is up. Also, while you could use spectral snapper to kill the procrastinating giant... the cost and low damage at that point still made it quality of life for me to banish them. mileage may vary.

I have not properly utilized turtle pheromones in anyway it seems... I'm not sure how it could be. I'd say maybe blue turtle shell except with Juan pshyco crackpot jars now.

Post run
Ended up with a 970/5 day run. That was with faliailing, several poor decisions or general lack of planning.

I over generated turns crazily. Didn't use any fullness or drunkenness day 5, could have gotten 150-200 more turns probably. I only barely over leveled. And had 40k meat or so at the end. The combat was easy enough as this class that I probably could have pushed it, ML, ect a bit more.
Class Act: Sauceror
Your HP/MP will go up and down a lot. It is not uncommon to lose 75% of your HP, and then gain it back through backsplash sphere absorb. I think the epic weapon is worth it for all three buffing classes it benefits.

The double ice cap is still your friend, as the stun means you can pull off two actions as long as you can survive the first hit. This is the same for all classes (except moxie) and the mp regen helps everyone.

At the start, remember that two of your sauce spheres offer damage reduction (not damage absorption) which can help you with the MCD early on. The down side is that the damage may kill enemies you dont intend to, like if your trying to yellow ray a hippy or arrow the Snowman assasin.

When you start going a little bit over your head (Billiars/Library), the +50 HP hatter buff can help you survive those 30 damage hits when you only have 20 max hp. When you are going A LOT over your head (bedroom, ballroom), then you have to rely on +ini, and nuking the enemies from orbit in 1 hit.

The AA gives you a voucher that can be traded in for a 150% spell damage buff. Day 1 you don't have any +spell damage yet unless you bring an astral ring, or buy the cookbook. Pen pal doesn't give you the crutch until day 2. The Nanobrainy buff is also +20 spell damage and 2-4 mp regen.

Overall, the biggest gating factor seems to be either max HP or ini. MP should never be an issue.

It may be worth it to take your siphons to the orcs. Or time it with the orc prevert wandering monster for that +50HP buff drink. CSA Badge is also a help but is limited, as well as the Hatter buff, telescope, and then sauce potions and various points. You can open the island day 2 (skiff or shoreing) and start getting potions up. Remeber S make 3 of each potion, and get 15 turns per potion. That's 225 turns of buffs a day from regents.

Post run
The NS was not fun. Beat her using max HP gear (Headband, double ice pants, black shield) and getting lucky with all my finger cuffs hitting her. Was getting hit for 70 damage each time, so its mostly just luck in getting those item blockers through.

Edit: Post PM run, learned I could of should have used shock belt to block the NS more. It can stun her EVERY TIME she hits you, instead of just the first time.

980 turn run. Lots of rng swing both ways you cant really do much about. Biggest pain was messing up the two snowman assassin faxes though. Could have used potions more.
Seal Clubber
I took astral bludgeon, but replaced it on day 3 with a farmed frigid-ass club. I probably could have survived the +20ML from the belt. But I am not sure I would have been able to get to this point in day 3 or farm those infernal seals day 1 if I hadn't started with the bludgeon...

All of the seal clubbers buffs are useful. +10% muscle and damage, +spooky damage, +HP. Between that and being a muscle class, HP isn't nearly the issue it was as a Sauceror. So SC becomes more of an issue of meat management with keeping up the buffs, combat, and healing.

MP and meat management are very tight day 1 and 2. MP regen is limited to the pool table and cmap fire buff day 1, and your meat mostly comes from the boss quest. If you are spacing out boss pies, that means you probably won't see the boner dagon or beat the level 8 quest on day 2 so your meat will stay fairly low throughout. The only other large source of meat is the fc'le quest, but I try to line those consumables up when I'm hitting the item test in twin peaks.

Seal Clubbers hit surprisingly hard at low levels (With a 2h weapon and +damage). Was hitting for 100 damage at level 5 day 1 with the bludgeon. Was able to consistently kill monsters in the bedroom using Finger cuffs this way. Spent somewhere around 20 finger cuffs that day alone.

Remeber to use one-a-day buffs before you night cap. The Rhino buff is 50 turns of +25% muscle and hp regen you can carry over to the next day (If you don't need/use the banish).

Seal farming is a pretty big boon. They have a number of useful drops (+200 HP potion, +25ML potion, can build +ML high damage club). You can make the most of these fights by lining them up with buffs, such as +stat/ML at the end of the day (when you have telescope and other high stat buffs as well), and also when you buff up for the fc'le so you can take advantage of the high +item.

Short Guide to seals:
- Hermit seals (get from hermit + 3 candels): Needed to fight other seals
- Centenarian of sparky (Clan store + 10 candels. 1500 meat): Gets you the item to make bad-ass club
- Cold seal (You will get them at the Goatlet): Drop the +200HP potion (Boo-Clue!) and a MP/HP regen 1-h Club
- Stinky seals (Pick one up at hippy camp): Drop the +ML potion. Use at twin peak

If your yellow raying the hippy outfit, it may be worth it to stay and make sure you get a stinky seal figurine. You could potentially put of ghouls until you get it as well.

By day 3 your meat problems are relatively more stable, you may have picked up a new club, and should be set to line up the quest which need lining up with buffs. The only other poteinal trick is in pulverizing wads for some added elemental resist if you need it for the quest. And a few bonus adventures and stats don't hurt either.

Monsters may start hitting you pretty hard (60+ damage) by the level 11/12 quest again, so healing prices pick up, but you should be able to handle it.

Post run: 5/964. 58 turns short of a 4 day. A number of places hit me with seemingly unavoidable lag. A 60 turn liver of steel quest (finished day 2), long pirates, and long hidden temple unlock to name a few. Also another annoying NS fight that cost me 3 turns.
Accordion Theif
After briefly considering opening the island early to siphon pirates for +50 moxie in order to fight in the library/ballroom... I started rethinking my plans. (And plans for the other classes as well.)

Moxie classes have a chance to get the most turn gen then any other class. Ode to Booze on AT, and SAC on DB gives them the best chance at a turn gen 4 day. You can either go for steel liver to get a high turn count 4 day, or try to skip it and go for sub 900.

First thing first, is get the epic weapon. Second thing is get finger cuffs so you can yellow ray a Mariachi.

One thing that was helpful was going to the trouble (MP regen pool table buff, Mojo) to cast antiphon early on. You can't fight stronger monsters, so you have to focus more on getting early stats for weaker monsters. Combining Antiphone, the first bad ass pie, and the hipster gave some surprisingly large combat stat gains early on.

Using the mimic in the billiards room I was able to stack quite a few cast of antiphon. I also used this time to fund ode for my first bit of drinking. I did not bother to waste any resources reaching for inigo's day 1; but I will likely make the time for it on other days.

I could not come up with the stench resist to do bats. Shifted plans towards farming kge outfit for the +5 familiar buff; then use that, sugar shield, parrot, so I could clover 2 sonars (telescope item). This means going after KGE before the semi rare so you can use that for consumable instead.

The combat is otherwise uneventful. The only time you have to worry about your HP is flyering, gremlins, and oily peak. (Oil peak auto hits you apparently.) In which case absorption song is a thing (+19 DR at lvl 12).

Day 2: With some of the longer term +ML buffs, its important to balance your +ML with the areas you want to adventure in and the stats you need to survive. Consider when you want to step into ballroom vs when you want to do ML for crypt.

MP is often not an issue, except when you need the really big buffs, or the occasional shuffling a lot of buffs at once. HP and doc's healing becomes more of an issue later on.

Ballroom leveling requiring a familiar really limits how you can use your other familiars on day 2. So you want to spend as little time as possible in there. It is probably worth it to double banish there with class monkey AND a crystal skull. Maybe even twice. The trick is fitting that into your summons.

Since I used a clover for epic weapon and sonar biscuits, I won't have the clovers for ore. That means shifting the semi rare I would have used for kge to a foreman + yellow ray on day 3. The alternative is waiting longer to do bats, which gives up a bad ass pie, meat source, and moxie pants day 1...

This was the first time I wasn't able to do a full Boo clue in CA. Buffed Hp up to 317 (with orc siphon, hatter buff, ect) and 6 resist both spooky and stench. But failed on the last check. This was with oil of parley +1 resist all which i normally don't have. Looking for another source of resist, such as the stomping boot spleen items, may be worth it.

Post run:
4/987. First 4 day. But It also should have been a personal best turn count, except for a 40 turn handsomeness potion (yellow ray'd). It would have been a 940.

Between the +120 adv from ode, 15+ adv saved from inigos: I over generated about 80 turns. I also over leveled 4 main stat into level 13. If I had to do it again, I would skip steel liver and power level smarter.
Pastamancer
Low HP like Sauceror, but have more initiative because of self buff. You have to be a little bit carefull running ML that monsters don't get the jump on you, but combat is otherwise not difficult. Even early on, you can adventure in just about any zone you can unlock. The largest spell I used day 1 was Candy blast, and I had more then enough MP.

You have two buffs, +40% initiative, and +5 familiar weight. You want to start them early but they are not hard to keep on. You can also get an additional 20% initiative from sugar rush buffs from candy blast. Focus on getting the jump rather then HP, though there is cheap healing if you do get hit.

Considering the +5 fam weight, PM will get a little more use out of boots runaways, and spangle rack (over frilly rack).

I was worried MP might be a problem, but efficient spell usage is relatively trivial. The pen pal hat/CSA firestarter breaks you even, and an astral ring would put you over the top. (The 20ML from the belt would probably stop you from getting the jump). Noodles, spear spear is 20 damage for 3 mp. Ravioli is 35ish for 4 mp. Candy Blast about 58 for 6 mp. Using just what you need, theres more then enough MP left over for buffs and healing.

Today was a 2 clover day (and PM epic weapon is horrible), so I felt better about farming kge and using sonar for bats. Though in hindsight, the leash and pool buff would have left me use parrot there without waiting to farm kge. I needed that turn gen to get day 1 liver however. Spent the rest of the time unlocking lvl 2 spooky raven (and used bathroom to level from 5 to 6.)

Picked up towel which is +2 spooky resist as turban for boo test, +15% initiative for getting jumps at higher ML, and +5 item drop late game. Can't equip any of them yet... but they are there.

Day2 I decided to be smart about it this time, and use NC buff to set song, before putting on +ML song for ghouls. Used 3rd pool buff for extra ini to make sure I got the jump, and some HP buffs, but on the few occasions I was hit it wasn't for much more than 50. Broke out Stringozzi Serpent today (160 damage [+poison additional rounds])

I also decided to be not smart, and even though I finished the liver quest day 1, I did not turn it in and drink the steel margarita. -20 turn gen.

Did not get shimmering tendrils in lich, but got 2 of the pasta summons at the zombies. Not that it will help terribly.

Myst Power leveling really sucks. I would have put it off until I could use another NC swim buff, except I had no where else to adventure and STILL had to generate familiar drops for food and booze despite the -5 liver capacity.

With that mistake to turn gen, and with inflated power leveling I am not sure that this run will be done within 4 days like last run. Not really much exciting to say about PM's or unique to this run. Noodles will help a lot with flying later on though, unlike other low HP classes. Probably won't grab the fruit needed to make boss chef staff.

Day 3 I way over generated MP... Serpent Stingy posin spell has been enough to one shot Giants, Constellations... every thing I've faced in level 11. I probably should have picked Astral Mask or Astral pet Sweater as my Astral item. Maybe Astral Belt, except that even with just the MCD, I occasionally get hit which is almost enough to kill me (Like the 2nd Gaudy pirate who killed me).

Screwed up and buffed up to to boo-peak at level 10 (because I wanted to have HP buff and start assasin fax early). Except that meant I did not have Black paint buff. So even with 9 spooky resist, I only had 3 cold resist and could not survive. Also realized that having cold resist would go a long way to surviving the Ninja Assasin first attack (Though DA does help as well).

I'm sick of this PM run already. Next run I will focus on turn reduction rather then turn gen, as well as screwing around with DB unarmed combat and disco combos.

Day 4 Generated 876 turns (856 played). Still have Nun's, rest of war, white pixel farm, and tower left. Probably a little over 80 which will put this at 936 turn 5 day. The 5th LFM cost me about 20 turns to find...

Day 5 Huh. The Shock belt can block multiple times per battle (unlike Double Ice cap)... I did not know that. This makes HC NS easier! Also finished at exactly 936 turns! (After a loss to the shadow getting the jump on me the first time).

Means I was 60 turns short of a 4 day... so not that close.
Disco Bandit
Day 1
In which we punch all the things.

Shifting focus to turn count rather then turn gen (With steel liver [took 25 turns]). This means among other things
Peppermint -> Skeleton
Astral Pistol -> Astral Mask
Ultra Fondue -> Crystal Skulls
Summons -> Halo's
Swim buff -> Mostly NC
Double Ice hat -> Pants
Arrow nothing day 1 -> Arrow bricko slime day 1

So DB abilities delevel is about the same as their MP cost. Twice as much if you cast Stealth Mistletoe first, including sucker punch. (Dance and Dance II count as spells, and apply an additional x2 modifier in addition to mistletoe. So Dance II will do 28 delevel with mistletoe against 'groups' like waltzers)

The only difference is how hard/fast you delevel them. So it basically turns into... Stab them down to no hit as fast as possible, then sucker punch them down to where you can hit them. This means a good deal of stasis and chance for your familiars to act (hipster, RP, Mimic, Organ grinder, ect)

I had no trouble with this at all on Day 1, running 10 MCD. The most I had to use was 1 Stealth Face Stab (-18) to get them down to no hit. Stealth Mistletoe was often worth casting even if you were only going to cast sucker punch, in order to delevel monsters to where you could hit them before the round limit expired. On day 2, 1 stealth Face stab was still enough to get to 'no hit', but I was starting to reach the round limit with sucker punch alone before I could attack them.

Disco combos
Disco Bleed: If you use it to last hit, can give you extra stats! But not really MP sustainable day 1...
Disco Stun: Dance(I or II) / eyepoke. stuns for 1/2 rounds. Using this may mean you take less damage then just Disco face stab
+Items: Poke + Dance I + Dance II (15MP total). Use anywhere you need items, can afford the MP, and survive any hits.

Between DB passives, Astral Mask, and KFH I had 60% item without any familiar equipped! With monocole and Frilly rack it was up to 140-150%. Other classes usually only get 100 with the Rack familiar. It also gives me 90% initiative base, which is plenty to off set the MCD.

For MP, I used the 2nd pool buff early on, fire starter later. I also did occasionally throw on the Rouge Program whenever I got low, and alternated GG tokens for cuffs and parachute. But not to much was needed. I also went through 8 tonic waters... MP fluctuates a good bit so there are times your topped off for a while, and times where you go down a good bit. Trying to avoid using star fish to much though, will see how day 2/3 go.

I did all of 3 turns of power leveling in the sewer, using finger cuffs and the GORF approves buff. Using this means that I had 1 odd fullness that i had to fill with crap at the end of the day, so that may have hurt turn gen a little. Got 50, 30, 30 main stat during those three turns however. It would have been to expensive to try and delevel Sewer monsters,

Run luck:
* Got bum cheek while opening the guild. So could adventure in bats without problem. Had baseball tower item though so I used a clover on that.

* Got the KGE semi rare (after hitting level 6), but then did not have the lab key to buy item buffs for friars. I could have spent 4 turns baking the cake and then fight the King, but I would have lost KFH. I decided to be silly and try to farm the harem outfit manually, and stop if I got a key first. After banishing the first guard, the harem girl dropped the outfit and disease on combat number 2. Meaning this route wound up being faster by a turn and some stats!

* Used swim buff NC for friars, but I only saved a few turns on the top zone. Maybe 4 overall. Found all my Air's before I encountered any of the Comedy 'Bosses', but the entire Steel quest only took me 25 turns. Remembered to GET AND USE the steel margarita that day.

I probably could have used the nano buff to Yellow ray the sleepy mariachi, instead of trying to farm a GG token for finger cuffs first thing... I also forgot to put the buff on at the end of my day. Costing me 50 turns of +mox and pickpocket...

Day 2:
In which RNG punches me

* 18 turns to farm pirate outfit.
* Hardly any booze from pirates (fast pirates, no non-combats)
* 20 turn Niche, using one banish at first, then adding a popper in after the 6th slick lich in a row.
* 15 turns in library before first NC
* Twin peak did not drop headge clippers in 11 turns, Boo peak took 10 turns to drop clue.

* Double banished in ballroom, used rhino buff (30% pickpocket), buffed item to 150%, and used disco concentrate every fight (170% item)... 41 turns spent there got 26 Zombie Waltzers (4 turns of banish, 1 setting son) and only 6 dance cards...

That's about half of what I should have got. And I was hoping to only need 40 turns there all run (to get about 12-14 dance cards). I had to spend another 25 turns there later in the day (and picked up about 4 more cards) without banish.

I want to spend as few turns in there as possible so I can get back to using other familiars, either siphoning more drinks or working towards my jar of P. That is a HUGE chunk of the day where you are mostly just using scarecrow.

~~~~~~~~

I have played 376 turns and generated 399 so far. 1 Stat from level 10. worried about turn gen now.

SAC give 3.5 adv per liver because of the 2 turns crafting, so small medium drinks actually beat them out. But they make good nightcaps, and save the bucket summons.

At this rate I will only generate 849 turns... And I Have already used 2 Astral hot dogs, and my grue egg. I will have the skeleton drink starting tomorrow however, and will get a few more siphons.


Day 3
Still able to punch things just fine during level 11. I got an ocarina at the airship, which would allow me to moxie plink with +2 stat, instead of the +3 stat with the halo. But I'd lose the +item buff. I'll try to keep punching at least until filthworm and ratchets. I probably should have made a macro that sucker punches for 20 rounds and aborts if HP gets below 30... Its starting to get tedious.

598 turns played, 638 turns generated. Got wet stew, Oasis, Pyrimid, Star/Digital key farm, war quest, and Tower....

I done messed up:
* Remembered to wait till level 11 to buff up for boo clue (6/10 resist and 400 HP were enough) but forgot to wait until I had faxed arrowed the ninja assasin. That meant I couldn't finish the level 8 quest without using a familiar to hit +5 cold resist.

* Spent 9 turns in ballroom trying to unlock cellar. Then remembered that I forgot to get the diary. So I went to the shore to vacation. Then realized that I didn't buy the forged documents yet... So that's 12 turn mistake.

Day 4
Finished with 4 turns (and a borrowed time left. so 24 turns). 4/845... *Runs and hides from blister*

I wound up 3 stat under level. Generated a hard 869 turns.

I was able to punch things all the way up to unlocking the war, and doing the filthworm/pyrimid. Two face stabs, and suckerpunch were enough, though I often through in extra face stabs or disco concentrate for expedience. I finally picked up a weapon though when clearing the war, as I was getting low on meat.

The entire day, I was chasing consumables to stay ahead of hitting 0 turns. I ended up summoning two ultra fondue, making 3 bad ass pies, 4 siphons, and picking up a lunch box semi rare.

Made the right call going for ratchetts. First I unlocked pyramid then YR/started war. Farmed the first gland using regular +item buffs (around 180). Once I got it, I put on my eyedrops, drank skeleton / BH drink. Used stone wool to extend those buffs by 3, then put on the store buffs. Farming the next two glands took about 6 turns. Then I went to the pyrimid. Used a popper on first snake, but kept first mummy as i needed powder organs for tower (got it on first turn). Then I Class monkey banished him and proceeded to get 5 ratchets from 4 rats at 333% item, then 5 ratchetts from 5 rats at 230% item. Setting the wheel took 1 turn.

Got 3 astronemers early (got hung up on stars but not for too long), and got LFM on turn 3 I believe. So lots of luck with me.

I should have buffed and used pickpocket/boots runaways while at the headge maze. The last turn i thought of it, i did not get the jump to get a pickpocket attempt... Could have saved 2-3 turns there probably. And then there was the 12 turn mistake I had the other day screwing around with the extra shore trip and the ballroom. So this could have been a 830 run probably.

Then again, my power leveling stint could have gone better as well and I wouldn't have ended up underleveld or spent extra time in that zone (17 additional turns power leveling). There were also several quest that went a little bit long such as airship (highest NC! highest Turn count...), library unlock, ect. I don't know if that evens out my rng good luck to avg or not.

So yeah, KFH is totally viable, and kind of fun to play that way (instead of as an AT). It also makes you look cool.
Run Comparison Summary:
Run Numbers (Quest and level)

Code: Select all

Level:        TT      SC      S     AT     PM     DB 
3              4       2     11      8     10     10      
4             19      18     27     24     24     20
5             54      68     66     53     57     51
-----------------------------------------------------
6            109     118    109    103     98     78
7            184     181    188    182    170    146
8            241     264    248    281    251    216
9            325     337    311    358    330    322
-----------------------------------------------------
10           392     388    376    417    381    382
11           515     528    513    518    503    481
12           666     723    723    665    668    641
13           932     936    955    884    907    827
-----------------------------------------------------
Done         970     964    987    985    936    845

Code: Select all

Quest Turns        TT      SC       S      AT     PM     DB
Mosquito Larva:     6       6       6       9      6      7
Hidden Temple :    21      32      13      16     12     20
Bat quest     :    15      12      13      13      7     13
Cobb's Knob   :    28      19      18      26     31     17
-------------------------------------------------------------      
Friars' quest :    35      42      42      46     41     41
Pandamonium   :    33      57      35      29     37     24
Defiled Cyrpt :    57      57      62      54     57     50
Trapzor quest :    42      12      10      19     14      9
Orc Chasm     :    13       3       2       2      7      5
-------------------------------------------------------------
Airship       :    35      31      36      28     31     38
Giant's Castle:    28      30      36      28     17     25
Open Ballroom :    39      45      37      43     41     52
Pirate quest  :    33      71      56      62     56     55
-------------------------------------------------------------
Black Forest  :    12       3      13       4      9      9
Desert Oasis  :    22      26      32      33     30     36
Spookyraven   :    11       6       6      19     12     32
Hidden City   :    25      20      22      23     30     22
Palindome     :    39      28      44      38     29     32
Pyramid quest :    59      54      43      32     37     25
-------------------------------------------------------------
Starting War  :     6      21      14      28      8      7
War Island    :    83      76      90     100    100     78
DoD quest     :    19       7       8      26      6     19
-------------------------------------------------------------
Power Leveling:    102     102     128      93    126    97
Turtle Tamer: Had the least planing for this run, and was coming off cold from a long holiday/pvp stint. So it was kind of a mess. Note I farmed miners outfit instead of using clovers.

Sauceror: Made a 30 turn mistake messing up both Snowman assassin fax/arrows and had to spend 30 turns with the extreme meter. Less turn gen then last run, and still far from 4 day even without the mistake though.

Seal Clubber:
Had a 60 turn steel liver quest (didn't finish until day 2), and also got hung up a few other areas. (23 Below decks waiting for gaudy, 27 twin peak waiting for NC/hedge, 32 spooky forest, 17 pirate cove farming outfit, 21 turn war start waiting for the NC). Gorram rng. Was 60 turns short of 4 day.

Accordion thief:
Could have handled power leveling better, and reorganized my day 2. I ended up getting some of the fastest quest turn counts with this class, but then got a 40 turn screw with handsomeness potion at the end, and a few 20 turn screws elsewhere (war start). To much damn swing.

Pastamancer:
Got a little bit sloppy when I stopped enjoying the run. Surprisingly though I got some of my lowest quest turn counts. Overestimated MP needs so I should have brought a different Astral item rather then ring. Should probably shift focus from turn gen to turn reduction.

Disco Bandit: Pending
KFH run totally viable, was punching all the way to the start of clearing the war. Could have kept punching during that, but switched to moxie plink for convenience. Mix of Great Rng (Most of day 4) and bad rng (Power leveling, library, Airship). Made a 12 turn mistake by doing level 12 stuff before getting the diary or forged documents.
Last edited by lightwolf on Wed Jan 23, 2013 2:18 am, edited 46 times in total.

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Re: Class Act: Lets Make a Strategy Thread: HC edition

Post by Guiseppi » Fri Jan 04, 2013 1:57 pm

lightwolf wrote:Class Act: Turtle Tamer
Hero makes it a pretty easy and fun play. Just buff muscle and smash things. Shield butt and finger cuffs to fight out of your league.
Hero and Tao (perm Tao!). I was running +31 ML the whole time and never really had a problem.
lightwolf wrote:The +50 elemental damage spirit drinks come in handy to. Since they do +100 damage against the right monsters (Bedroom/ballroom for instance) you can fight in that area a lot earlier and consistently kill things!
Ballroom, yes. Bedroom, no. The only elementally-aligned monster in the Bedroom is the jilted mistress, and you shouldn't be fighting her anyway. The +50 damage still helps against the nightstands, but don't go in there expecting +100.
lightwolf wrote:Tenacity is quite important to keep up, again even more so the first 2 days when you are going against more powerfull monsters. I found it worth it to make the epic weapon for 10 turn buffs just because of how expensive the TT buffs are. But outside of that I'd have more MP then I need just with the CSA Fire start, and later the Double ice hat and spangly pants.
I was running Tenacity, Curiosity, and Empathy the entire run, and early on Reptilian Fortitude for the extra HP. Throw any extra MP at the two Shells, and Jingle Jangle Jingle any time you're using a familiar that can benefit from it. (I made a Mace of the Tortoise too, but I'm not sure I will next time.)
lightwolf wrote:I have not properly utilized turtle pheromones in anyway it seems... I'm not sure how it could be. I'd say maybe blue turtle shell except with Juan pshyco crackpot jars now...
Not sure how I feel about jars yet. They seem to vary widely in how long they take to drop.

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Re: Class Act: Lets Make a Strategy Thread: HC edition

Post by lostcalpolydude » Fri Jan 04, 2013 2:01 pm

Guiseppi wrote:Not sure how I feel about jars yet. They seem to vary widely in how long they take to drop.
I think it's exactly 31 combats.
bmaher: Softcore character
lostcalpolydude: Hardcore character (abandoned)

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Re: Class Act: Lets Make a Strategy Thread: HC edition

Post by lightwolf » Sat Jan 05, 2013 2:39 am

Going to update my two main post to consolidate info: but will put updated info seperately in new post so people don't have to dig it out either.


Garden:
Skeletons probably save you turn count overall. But Pepermint turn gen ended up being a huge deal in filling my booze, and making day 1 steel in my TT run. My skele garden S run only just completed friars at end of day 1. So 30-40 turns short of getting steel. And filling liver was noticeably difficult even without +5 from the steel item...

Familiars
Non TT have a signficant lack of weight without the passive or the familiar buff. I didn't notice this before, but it makes a decent difference in item drop familiars. Also probably makes Hipster the strongest volly familiar. (though mimic might be worth it after you get your seven free fights, and bugged bug bear if you can survive the ML

-----------------------------------------------------------------
Sauceror
Your HP/MP will go up and down a lot.

At the start, remember that two of your sauce spheres offer damage reduction (not damage absorption) which can help you with the MCD early on. But you have very low HP! It is not uncommon to lose 75% of your HP, and then gain it back through backsplash sphere absorb. I think the epic weapon is worth it for all three buffing classes it benefits.

When you start going a little bit over your head (Billiars/Library), the +50 HP hatter buff can help you survive those 30 damage hits when you only have 20 max hp. When you are going A LOT over your head (bedroom, ballroom), then you have to rely on +ini, and nuking the enemies from orbit in 1 hit.

Also good to remember is that the AA gives you a voucher that can be traded in for a 150% spell damage buff. Day 1 you don't have any +spell damage yet unless you bring an astral ring, or buy the cookbook. Pen pal doesn't give you the crutch until day 2. The Nanobrainy buff is also +20 spell damage and 2-4 mp regen as well.

Overall, the biggest gating factor seems to be either max HP or ini. MP actually shouldn't be that big of an issue.

Day 2: Seconded that statment about HP being a limiting factor :/. Monster hit me for 42 hp. I have max 38. This was just during the steel liver quest, with only 10ML. Same issue for crypt, trying to do fax/arrow of pervert, and so on...

Also going skeleton garden, and non-consumable semi rare probably wasn't great. Only getting 155 adv a day now, and having to fill last few stomach/liver with crap. Will be better tomorrow once I add skeleton drink to the mix. Probably should have been watching bounties for bounty food as well. Clovered the ores so I can start picking up consumables.

I did not have time to finish my hipster free fights, let along start trying for mimic pops. This was with 3 boss pies, 3 max siphon drinks, 3 groose, and finishing up the jar/relevant item drop familiar that I needed today.

It may be worth it to take your siphons to the orcs. Or time it with the orc prevert wandering monster for that +50HP. CSA Badge probably would help to, as well as the Hatter buff, telescope, and then sauce potions and various points. Really want a high +HP early game item somewhere...

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Re: Class Act: Lets Make a Strategy Thread: HC edition

Post by lightwolf » Wed Jan 09, 2013 3:19 am

Garden 2
Even with the Skeleton garden, I was able to generate 980 turns by the end of the S run before filling most of my stomach and liver. Probably could have generated 1150 overall. But I was also summoning 2 Ultra fondues a couple of days, in addition to 3 boss pies, and 4 siphon drinks.


Seal Clubber
All of the seal clubbers buffs are useful. +10% muscle and damage, +spooky damage, +HP. Between that and being a muscle class, HP isn't nearly the issue it was as a Sauceror.

They can also hit like a truck with a two handed weapon and Lunging. Was hitting for 100 damage at level 5 day 1. Was able to consistently kill monsters in the bedroom using Fingercuffs, which you may want to pick up with a couple of GameGrid tokens.

Small MP pool though, and low sources of MP regen day 1. This makes it expensive if you push yourself day 1. Keeping up the buffs is tricky until you get double Ice day 2, so I used my Pool table buffs on the MP regen, and campfire regen as well.

Remember to use the Rhino before you nightcap if you aren't using the banish that day. That's 50 turns of +25% muscle and hp regen to carry over to the next day. Also remember you have extra free fights with the seals. Using a bunch of +ML, +exp, Badge, Telescope, and rhino at the end of day 1 can be a good boost for the next day.

I took 2-h Astral club for fun this run. Which makes the above seal clubbing, and early monster thumping pretty easy.

Day 2: If your spreading out Crypt bosses over two days for boss pies, then you Won't be getting the crypt chest today. Or most likely any other large source of quest meat. So meat will continue to be scarce on day 2. You do however get the double ice helm which should fund most of your buffs and at least some of your healing. Also it allows for two hit thrust for cheaper combat, or two hit lunge for harder combat.

Seals: Having the Astral 2-H makes killing seals trivial. But the seals drop some nice items as well. The centarian, which cost 1500 to fight, can drop the item to make a bad ass club. Which has +15 Ml and is decently strong.

The Cold seals, which you will pick up in the goatlet, drop a buff item that gives +200 HP!!! Get one of these for the boo Clue. Get a 2nd one and you can turn your Bad ass club into an even stronger 2 Handed ML weapon. If I can create one, I may well swap out my astral club for it if I can survive.

Theres also a chance you could pick up a stinky seal when at the hippy camp. That gives +10 turns of +ML as well which can be used for Oil Peak. Alternatively, you could try to put off Ghouls until you can get one.

Either unlcok the island early, or put Ghouls off until day 3. Use ML/Ini Pool buff day 1 and do zombies day 2. Use ML/INI pool buff end of day 2. Then pick up the NC buff day 3 and use it for Ghouls. This also has the benifit in that you are more likely to carry over your NC pool buff to either power level or do the level 10 quest.

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Re: Class Act: Lets Make a Strategy Thread: HC edition

Post by lightwolf » Sun Jan 13, 2013 2:06 am

Sir Robin
I've been ignoring the stomping boots since my TT run. But If I really mean to cut turns, I proably should make a sugar shield day 1, and use any familiar buffs I can get to get at least 4 runaways a day. I say this after spending 30 turns in the spooky forest in my SC run somehow... This means 1 less ultra fondue on day 1 however.

Accordion Thief
After briefly considering opening the island early to siphon pirates for +50 moxie in order to fight in the library/ballroom... I started rethinking my plans. (And plans for the other classes as well.)

Moxie classes, more so than the others, should go all out for day 1 steel liver. Ode to Booze on AT, and SAC on DB gives them the best chance at a turn gen 4 day. This probably means I should avoid trying to set the song before doing friars, in order to have time to complete the liver quest. In hindsight, that may be a better plan for all classes.

Step 1: Get Epic Weapon turn 1. (Step 2 involves waiting for finger cuffs before trying to yellow ray mariachi)

One thing that was helpful was going to the trouble (MP regen pool table buff, Mojo) to cast antiphon early on. You can't fight stronger monsters, so you have to focus more on getting early stats for weaker monsters. Combining Antiphone, the first bad ass pie, and the hipster gave some surprisingly large combat stat gains for the limitations you have in CA.

Using the mimic in the billiards room I was able to stack quite a few cast of antiphon. I also used this time to fund ode for my first bit of drinking. I did not bothre to waste any resources reaching for inigo's day 1; but I will likely make the time for it on other days.

I could not come up with the stench resist to do bats. Failed to come up with a bum cheek while unlcoking guild. So i decided to work on unlocking the kge outfit for the +5 familiar buff; then use that, sugar shield, parrot, and a clover for bats this time around. Since I ran out of stuff to do without bats, this meant farming the kge outfit manually before the semi rare counter came up.

I made a mistake here of going wines semi rare instead of tasty cakes. Since I was using a summons for the sugar shield and not a 2nd ultra fondue, and since I had pepermint drinks my food needed filling more than my booze. But this did mean I didn't need the small medium as much and had time to use other familiars.

The combat is otherwise uneventful. Don't have to worry about HP like myst classes because of the dmg reduction or no hit from high moxie set. Its just buff Moxie balls out and plink away. Have to manage ML sometimes, otherwise you find yourself backing off the MCD because of an ultra fondue or swim buff you just used and can't remove, wasting some of that stat gain.


Day 2: With some of the longer term +Ml buffs, its important to balance your +ML with the areas you want to adventure in and the stats you need to survive.

The double Ice hat means you'll have more MP then you need most the time, while other times you'll be running on 0 mp when you need to put on another song. This won't last too long though as once you hit main stat 60 you'll put on the spangly sombrero. The spangly pants are nice when you aren't using the spangle rack or an outfit, which is quite a bit of the time.

Because moxie power leveling requires (or strongly suggest) for a item familiar, this makes it a lot harder to run your small medium, or other utility familiars as much. That is 60-100 turns you can't use other familiars, whcih can bottle neck you when your running low on turns, and need to fill stomach/spleen/liver but have no where to adventure that dosen't ask for +items.

Even using a banish, waltzers only show up half as often as the other monster in the zone. Gorram RNG.
Last edited by lightwolf on Sun Jan 13, 2013 11:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Class Act: Lets Make a Strategy Thread: HC edition

Post by blisterguy » Sun Jan 13, 2013 2:35 pm

I haven't read your whole post yet, and I will, but I didn't get liver in my AT 4 dayer.

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Re: Class Act: Lets Make a Strategy Thread: HC edition

Post by Guiseppi » Mon Jan 14, 2013 8:51 am

lostcalpolydude wrote:
Guiseppi wrote:Not sure how I feel about jars yet. They seem to vary widely in how long they take to drop.
I think it's exactly 31 combats.
I'd heard people saying they'd gotten jar drops within 1-2 turns. That seemed really swingy. Now we know(?) it's because the counter keeps incrementing for the next day.

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Re: Class Act: Lets Make a Strategy Thread: HC edition

Post by lightwolf » Tue Jan 15, 2013 6:16 am

So for Moxie CA leveling... It seems like using a class monkey + Crystal skull + Rhino pickpocket buff at the same time in the ballroom is the fastest way to get dance cards.

But when would you do this? You need to power level 8-10 day 2, but I all ready use all of my summons day 2. Day 3 you need it a little for 10.5 to 11 as well... Or is it even worth doing both days? Just how powerfull is class monkey + crystal skull here...

Edit: Gah, and now i might be overlevled. My first 50 turns in the ballroom without double banish i got crap monster distribution and only got 3 dance cards. My next 30 turns I got 9 dance cards, and 8 of the moxie non-combats. I also got a butt load of non-combats in the palindrome and Giants so now I will probably wind up with spare dance cards. Will see how that turns out.

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Re: Class Act: Lets Make a Strategy Thread: HC edition

Post by blisterguy » Tue Jan 15, 2013 8:21 pm

I think you have to Monkey/Skull the Ballroom for moxie power leveling. My current estimate is that you will need to do it twice in your run.

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Re: Class Act: Lets Make a Strategy Thread: HC edition

Post by lightwolf » Wed Jan 16, 2013 12:49 am

HC AT CA: 4/985

Ended up 4 stats over level.

Also 40 $@!%!@% turn Handsomeness potion.

Else it have been a 945. Still had 3 turns and 4 drunkenness left.
blisterguy wrote:I think you have to Monkey/Skull the Ballroom for moxie power leveling. My current estimate is that you will need to do it twice in your run.
Hmm. In order to do it day 2... I'd have to fit that into a summons.

Normally day 2 I would summon Bucket of Wine, Quake of Arrows (arrowing pervert today), and Ultra Fondue. You could replace a crystal skull with Ultra Fondue, but thats ML you would have used at crypt. That means either putting that part of the crypt off until later (day 3? line it up with oily peak?) and also putting off cryp completetion and crypt later.

Or you'd summon a Ultra Fondue day 1, but bank it instead of eating it. Which would hurt day 1 generation and stat gains.

Then you'd also have to make it from 8 to 10 (or 9.5) when power leveling during that 20 turns. And do another 20 turn stint day 3 when you can more easily fit in 1 (or two) skulls.


Alternatively you could arrow the assassin instead of pervert today and put off quake until later. But Ive had problems with non muscle classes surviving day 3 even, let alone day 2 against assassins. Being buffed at all 3 intervals at over 125 HP would be trickier (Hatter buff, badge don't last long enough). Plus I'm more likely to use my HP buffs during the high ML crypt (which may or may not even happen if things were shifted around).



I over leveled this time partly because I got a LOT of the moxie non-combats in the ballroom, Castle, and palindrome. I probably could have had 40-50 less turns in the ballroom overall though if I had planned it better.
Last edited by lightwolf on Wed Jan 16, 2013 6:51 am, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Class Act: Lets Make a Strategy Thread: HC edition

Post by lightwolf » Wed Jan 16, 2013 6:02 am

5 Day to 4 Day Fax
Was debating Whether to do mariachi, or LFM for day 1 fax. In 5 day, i can fax in the 5th LFM on day 5. During my last 4 day however, it took me 14 turns to find the LFM.

Does the Spangle rack really save 14 turns over the frilly skirt rack without +familiar weight skills?

I'm PM this run though, so I have +5 fam buff. And the mp regen on the pants will help with expensive combat so I decided to go with mariachi again this run. Will see how that turns out.




Pastamancer
Low HP like Sauceror, but have more initiative because of self buff. You have to be a little bit carefull running ML that monsters don't get the jump on you, but combat is otherwise not difficult. Even early on, you can adventure in just about any zone you can unlock. The largest spell I used day 1 was Candy blast, and I had more then enough MP.

You have two buffs, +40% initiative, and +5 familiar weight. You want to start them early but they are not hard to keep on. You can also get an additional 20% initiative from sugar rush buffs from candy blast. Focus on getting the jump rather then HP, though there is cheap healing if you do get hit.

Considering the +5 fam weight, PM will get a little more use out of boots runaways, and spangle rack (over frilly rack).

I was worried MP might be a problem, but efficient spell usage is relatively trivial. The pen pal hat/CSA firestarter breaks you even, and an astral ring would put you over the top. (The 20ML from the belt would probably stop you from getting the jump). Noodles, spear spear is 20 damage for 3 mp. Ravioli is 35ish for 4 mp. Candy Blast about 58 for 6 mp. Using just what you need, theres more then enough MP left over for buffs and healing.

Today was a 2 clover day (and PM epic weapon is horrible), so I felt better about farming kge and using sonar for bats. Though in hindsight, the leash and pool buff would have left me use parrot there without waiting to farm kge. I needed that turn gen to get day 1 liver however. Spent the rest of the time unlocking lvl 2 spooky raven (and used bathroom to level from 5 to 6.)

Picked up towel which is +2 spooky resist as turban for boo test, +15% initiative for getting jumps at higher ML, and +5 item drop late game. Can't equip any of them yet... but they are there.

Day2 I decided to be smart about it this time, and use NC buff to set song, before putting on +ML song for ghouls. Used 3rd pool buff for extra ini to make sure I got the jump, and some HP buffs, but on the few occasions I was hit it wasn't for much more than 50. Broke out Stringozzi Serpent today (160 damage [+poison additional rounds])

I also decided to be not smart, and even though I finished the liver quest day 1, I did not turn it in and drink the steel margarita. -20 turn gen.

Did not get shimmering tendrils in lich, but got 2 of the pasta summons at the zombies. Not that it will help terribly.

Myst Power leveling really sucks. I would have put it off until I could use another NC swim buff, except I had no where else to adventure and STILL had to generate familiar drops for food and booze despite the -5 liver capacity.

With that mistake to turn gen, and with inflated power leveling I am not sure that this run will be done within 4 days like last run. Not really much exciting to say about PM's or unique to this run. Noodles will help a lot with flying later on though, unlike other low HP classes. Probably won't grab the fruit needed to make boss chef staff.

Also realized that time halo is the better choice over bucket of wine. As you can still NC something else. But then that is also turn gen over long period, vs having more turn gen day 2 when there is less of it and more things to do with familiars.

Day 3 I way over generated MP... Serpent Stingy posin spell has been enough to one shot Giants, Constellations... every thing I've faced in level 11. I probably should have picked Astral Mask or Astral pet Sweater as my Astral item. Maybe Astral Belt, except that even with just the MCD, I occasionally get hit which is almost enough to kill me (Like the 2nd Gaudy pirate who killed me).

Screwed up and buffed up to to boo-peak at level 10 (because I wanted to have HP buff and start assasin fax early). Except that meant I did not have Black paint buff. So even with 9 spooky resist, I only had 3 cold resist and could not survive. Also realized that having cold resist would go a long way to surviving the Ninja Assasin first attack (Though DA does help as well).

I'm sick of this PM run already. Next run I will focus on turn reduction rather then turn gen, as well as screwing around with DB unarmed combat and disco combos.


Day 5: Things I learned today. Shocking Belt blocks multiple times per combat. Makes NS much more manageable (or gives you more chances to get lucky)
Last edited by lightwolf on Sat Jan 19, 2013 10:19 pm, edited 2 times in total.

blisterguy
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Re: Class Act: Lets Make a Strategy Thread: HC edition

Post by blisterguy » Thu Jan 17, 2013 6:46 am

My practice DB run came in perfectly, despite a few horrible rng-related things. If not for Archham's PM run, I'd now have the fastest HC and SC Class Act runs. If anything, that tells us just how soft these boards are, because I'm pretty terrible.

I somehow managed to run unarmed all the way up until I set foot on the battlefield. I sucked pretty badly on day 1, where I should have sewer levelled but didn't think of it until it was too late, which meant I missed day 1 liver.

Unfortunately, I did some parts of this run at work, so many of the turns are not captured by mafia. Of what was captured, here are some highlights:

Cast 2528 suckerpunch
Cast 429 stealth mistletoe
Cast 311 disco dance ii: electric boogaloo
Cast 288 disco eye-poke
Cast 204 disco dance of doom
Cast 174 disco face stab
Cast 110 tango of terror

Fancypants Scarecrow : 245 combat turns (43.7%)
Mini-Hipster : 78 combat turns (13.9%)
Knob Goblin Organ Grinder : 60 combat turns (10.7%)
Happy Medium : 42 combat turns (7.5%)

Double-Ice Britches were fantastic, and have been in all of my runs. Superior Lep for the nuns, and a super efficient way to kill everything, which was extra helpful in this run, because once I got to level 10, there was practically no way I was hitting anyone without Facestabbing them repeatedly first. In cases where I needed item drops, Facestabbing them was something I did a lot.

Haunted Ballroom: 138
Battlefield (Frat Uniform): 47
Fantasy Airship: 30

This last one is especially funny, because there's no way it's accurate. I assume mafia has tried to fill in the blanks where I played at work, or something.

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lightwolf
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Re: Class Act: Lets Make a Strategy Thread: HC edition

Post by lightwolf » Thu Jan 17, 2013 8:26 pm

that is kind of awesome. I'm going to try that now...

Disco Bandit museing.
Screw it! I'm going to punch things.

Garden:
Alright, first since SAC exist, I'm switching peppermint to skeletons.

Next, summons...
Summon 1: Again, Bucket of Wine is not nearly as useful now. I can replace that with a Time halo day 1, and a crystal skull day 2/3 for power leveling. Borrowed time is still day 4.

Summon 2: Normally get Sugar shield d1, Quake of Arrows d2.

Summon 3: Usually just used on Ultra Fondue. I can replace the first Ultra fondue with a shining halo. It will give more stats, even if i can only just sustain it for the first day. So its mostly a cost of turn gen...

Day 1: Shining halo , Sugar shield?, Time halo
Day 2: ??????????? , quake of arrows, Crystal Skull
Day 3: Ultra Fondue, ??????????????, Crystal Skull
Day 4: ??????????? , ?????????????, Borrowed Time

Replace ALL the gaps with Ultra Fondue.... I could afford 2 crystal skulls to do all my power leveling day 2. But lose crazy turn gen because of it. Wait, what am i summoning those other days... Day 4 I usualy leave for flex/situational summons...

Yellow Ray:
Same. Mariachi, pervert, assassin, LFM

Quest Stack
The high ML stuff (crypt, oily peak) should both be put off until later. That means 3 swim buffs for NC, and only 1 for ML.

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lightwolf
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Re: Class Act: Lets Make a Strategy Thread: HC edition

Post by lightwolf » Sun Jan 20, 2013 2:53 am

Huh. So apparently Shock belt stuns on every attack! Not just the first attack... this potentially cuts the damage Myst classes take against the NS in half at least.

The 5th LFM cost me 20 turns that last day. Still wouldn't have gotten me a 4 day, but could have improved turn count a bit. That last LFM sucks. Is it worth turning off the ballroom song for that?

Disco Bandit
In which we punch all the things.

Shifting focus to turn count rather then turn gen (With steel liver [took 25 turns]). This means among other things
Peppermint -> Skeleton
Astral Pistol -> Astral Mask
Ultra Fondue -> Crystal Skulls
Summons -> Halo's
Swim buff -> Mostly NC
Double Ice hat -> Pants
Arrow nothing day 1 -> Arrow bricko slime day 1

So DB abilities delevel is about the same as their MP cost. Twice as much if you cast Stealth Mistletoe first, including sucker punch. The only difference is how hard/fast you delevel them. So it basically turns into... Stab them down to no hit as fast as possible, then sucker punch them down to where you can punch them. This means a good deal of stasis and chance for your familiars to act (hipster, RP, Mimic, Organ grinder, ect)

I had no trouble with this at all on Day 1, running 10 MCD. The most I had to use was 1 Stealth Face Stab (-18) to get them down to no hit. Surprisingly, my moxie was pretty high with no weapon equipped. Stealth Mistletoe was often worth casting even if you were only going to cast sucker punch, in order to delevel monsters to where you could hit them before the round limit expired.

Disco combos to be aware of (I kept the wiki page open)
Disco Bleed: If you use it to last hit, can give you extra stats! But not really MP sustainable day 1...
Disco Stun: Dance(I or II) / eyepoke. stuns for 1/2 rounds. Using this may mean you take less damage then just Disco face stab
+Items: Poke + Dance I + Dance II (15MP total). Might be useful in a few places.

Between DB passives, Astral Mask, and KFH I had 60% item without any familiar equipped! With monocole and Frilly rack it was up to 140-150%. Other classes usually only get 100 with the Rack familiar. It also gives me 90% initiative base, which is plenty to off set the MCD.

For MP, I used the 2nd pool buff early on, fire starter later. I also did occasionally throw on the Rouge Program whenever I got low, and alternated GG tokens for cuffs and parachute. But not too much was needed. Consumed 8 tonic waters during the day... MP fluctuates a good bit so there are times your topped off for a while, and times where you go up and down a good bit. Try to avoid relying on star fish to much though, with all the other familiars you need to use.

I did all of 3 turns of power leveling in the sewer, using finger cuffs and the GORF approves buff. Using this means that I had 1 odd fullness that i had to fill with crap at the end of the day, so that may have hurt turn gen a little. Got 50, 30, 30 main stat during those three turns however. It would have been to expensive to try and delevel Sewer monsters enough to hit them. Alternatively, I could have replaced sugar shield with a tempero wine, and extended GORF by 5 more turns... But it was not needed for this run as I still made day 1 liver, and at least unlocked the library.

Run luck:
* Got bum cheek while opening the guild. So could adventure in bats without problem. Had baseball tower item though so I used a clover on that.

* Got the KGE semi rare (after hitting level 6), but then did not have the lab key to buy item buffs for friars. I could have spent 4 turns baking the cake and then fight the King, but I would have lost KFH. I decided to be silly and try to farm the harem outfit manually, and stop if I got a key first. After banishing the first guard, the harem girl dropped the outfit and disease on combat number 2. Meaning this route wound up being faster by a turn and some stats!

* Used swim buff NC for friars, but I only saved a few turns on the top zone. Maybe 4 overall. Found all my Air's before I encountered any of the Comedy 'Bosses', but the entire Steel quest only took me 25 turns. Remembered to GET AND USE the steel margarita that day.

* Got all of the crap NC with rat whiskers in the tavern... (Like 3 of them! in addition to other booze NC...)

I probably could have used the nano buff to Yellow ray the sleepy mariachi, instead of trying to farm a GG token for finger cuffs first thing...


So far, this run has been pretty fun.


Day 2:
In which RNG punches me

* 18 turns to farm pirate outfit.
* Hardly any booze from pirates (fast pirates, no non-combats)
* 20 turn Niche, using one banish at first, then adding a popper in after the 6th slick lich in a row.
* 15 turns in library before first NC
* Twin peak did not drop headge clippers in 11 turns, Boo peak took 10 turns to drop clue.

* Double banished in ballroom, used rhino buff (30% pickpocket), buffed item to 150%, and used disco concentrate every fight... 41 turns spent there got 26 Zombie Waltzers (4 turns of banish, 1 setting son) and only 6 dance cards...

That's about half of what I should have got. And I was hoping to only need 40 turns there all run. I had to spend another 25 turns there later in the day (and picked up about 4 more cards) without banish.

I want to spend as few turns in there as possible so I can get back to using other familiars, either siphoning more drinks or working towards my jar of P.


* On the other hand, fc'le went smothly and got that out of the way before I wanted to ware mariachi hat.


I have played 376 turns and generated 399 so far. 1 Stat from level 10.

SAC give 3.5 adv per liver because of the 2 turns crafting, so small medium drinks actually beat them out. But they make good nightcaps, and save the bucket summons.

At this rate I will only generate 849 turns... And I Have already used 2 Astral hot dogs, and my grue egg. I will have the skeleton drink starting tomorrow however, and will get a few more siphons.

Day 3
Still able to punch things just fine in level 11. I got an orcarina of time, which would allow me to moxie plink with +2 stat, instead of the +3 stat with the halo. But I'd lose the +item buff. I'll try to keep punching at least until filthworm and ratchets. I probably should have made a macro that sucker punches for 20 rounds and aborts if HP gets below 30... Its starting to get tedious.

598 turns played, 638 turns generated. Got wet stew, Oasis, Pyrimid, Star/Digital key farm, war quest, and Tower....


I done messed up:
* Remembered to wait till level 11 to buff up for boo clue (6/10 resist and 400 HP were enough) but forgot to wait until I had faxed arrowed the ninja assasin. That meant I couldn't finish the level 8 quest without using a familiar to hit +5 cold resist.

* Spent 9 turns in ballroom trying to unlock cellar. Then remembered that I forgot to get the diary. So I went to the shore to vacation. Then realized that I didn't buy the forged documents yet... So that's 12 turn mistake.

Day 4
Finished with 4 turns (and a borrowed time left. so 24 turns). 4/845... *Runs and hides from blister*

I wound up 3 stat under level. Generated a hard 869 turns.

I was able to punch things all the way up to unlocking the war, and doing the filthworm/pyrimid. Two face stabs, and suckerpunch were enough, though I often through in extra face stabs or disco concentrate for expedience. I finally picked up a weapon though when clearing the war, as I was getting low on meat.

The entire day, I was chasing consumables to stay ahead of hitting 0 turns. I ended up summoning two ultra fondue, making 3 bad ass pies, 4 siphons, and picking up a lunch box semi rare.

Made the right call going for ratchetts. First I unlocked pyramid then YR/started war. Farmed the first gland using regular +item buffs (around 180). Once I got it, I put on my eyedrops, drank skeleton / BH drink. Used stone wool to extend those buffs by 3, then put on the store buffs. Farming the next two glands took about 6 turns. Then I went to the pyrimid. Used a popper on first snake, but kept first mummy as i needed powder organs for tower (got it on first turn). Then I Class monkey banished him and proceeded to get 5 ratchets from 4 rats at 333% item, then 5 ratchetts from 5 rats at 230% item. Setting the wheel took 1 turn.

Got 3 astronemers early (got hung up on stars but not for too long), and got LFM on turn 3 I believe. So lots of luck with me.

I should have buffed and used pickpocket/boots runaways while at the headge maze. The last turn i thought of it, i did not get the jump to get a pickpocket attempt... Could have saved 2-3 turns there probably. And then there was the 12 turn mistake I had the other day screwing around with the extra shore trip and the ballroom. So this could have been a 830 run probably.

Then again, my power leveling stint could have gone better as well and I wouldn't have ended up underleveld or spent extra time in that zone (17 additional turns power leveling). I don't know if that evens out my rng good luck to avg or not.

So yeah, KFH is totally viable, and kind of fun to play that way (instead of as an AT). It also makes you look cool.

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lightwolf
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Re: Class Act: Lets Make a Strategy Thread: HC edition

Post by lightwolf » Tue Jan 29, 2013 10:45 pm

I log dumped the run logs on the public ascension board. HERE!

I am currently going through 3 day SC CA for each class now. But as I am applying nothing that resembles strategy towards them so nothing much to say or post about em. 9/12 on boards currently! weeeeeee

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Shadow Tiger
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Re: Class Act: Lets Make a Strategy Thread: HC edition

Post by Shadow Tiger » Fri Feb 15, 2013 2:50 am

Thanks for posting this up. It made my TTCA run much easier to deal with once I finally got around to it. Especially since I hadn't ascended since before the lvl 9 revamp.
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