HCO run plan critique.

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Draco Cracona
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HCO run plan critique.

Post by Draco Cracona » Thu May 16, 2013 8:41 pm

Hey, folks. I'd like some critique of my 7 day HCO run plan- primarily where the turngen is concerned, but comments on other parts are also welcome. Planting stuff is still a work in progress. I'm consistently 10-15 adventures under average on turngen, though, across multiple runs, so I wonder if I've buggered something up there. I have AEDs down as 32 turns, and regular spleen fam items at 7.5 per (GG token/Grease/dream Jar).

The plan:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc ... QZHc#gid=0.

Am I making any blunders there?

Thanks!

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lotsofphil
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Re: HCO run plan critique.

Post by lotsofphil » Fri May 17, 2013 8:35 am

Ooh, neat. I'll take a look. I still have 4 plexi to obtain.

edit: you only appear to have 16 spleen filled on D7.
edit: is D3 spleen kinda late? I'm asking from total ignorance here. I thought it was a D2 thing. That plus above is 15 turns.
edit: and you're selling your wedding ring on D5?
edit: you have a D2 borrowed time summon. That's for spleen of steel? So confused right now.

iron bob
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Re: HCO run plan critique.

Post by iron bob » Fri May 17, 2013 2:27 pm

Not to be dismissive/elitist, but shouldn't 7 day mox class HCO be a slam dunk with all the recent powercreep? Should be no need for a meat maid (saves a clover and a turn) or DGW (use some of your abundant runaways from boots/parasols on non-mod-zombs). You can probably sub in llama spleen stuff for one of your 4-spleen items day six and/or seven, or one llama item + prismatic wad.

Even muscle/myst classes should be able to make 7 days on average without maxing turngen, but I haven't crunched the numbers.

I'm guessing that your third day two summon is a broken clock with fallback to a borrowed time if needed to get spleen of steel. Now that the bedroom can be accessed with no min mainstat requirement, day two SoS should be pretty much in the bag absent horrible RNG, so I'd recommend just summoning the broken clock first thing day two for the extra stats. Maybe save furry halo for end of day just in case, since you'll only be using it for an extra boots runaway.

Draco Cracona
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Re: HCO run plan critique.

Post by Draco Cracona » Sat May 18, 2013 2:52 am

7 day moxie HCO doesn't feel like something I should be having issues with, it has to be said. I've not done a serious run since the revamps, though, so I'm keeping the turngen stuff like the maid in there until I have a serious run and see where I end up. I think I should be looking at about 600-610ish turns, though, which is certainly the area where a maid's not useful (626 at the NS at the end of D7 this run, with major blunders involving losing fights, forgetting parasols, flailing with the florist friar, and mis-summoning, among others). My plan is to try and push the TC down to sub-600, then to drop spleen and hope.

DGW doesn't happen too often- that's listed because I grabbed one (via PP) today. I tend to parasol there, and get shouted at by Eleron for using the hipster for moderns as opposed to the worm, as they're relatively similar in terms of TC, but I don't have anywhere else to actually use the hipster then.

As long as I don't get beaten up numerous times early on (the ML plants last run threw me off a bit), D2 spleen should be fine, I think. I have been leaving it and pushing it back to D3 lately, as the barrier there isn't really levelling- it's not getting shafted on bloody friar's P1 taking 35-40 turns with -20% combat. It's been a while since I've summoned a borrowed time over a broken clock, though. I like my clocks.

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maddsurgeon
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Re: HCO run plan critique.

Post by maddsurgeon » Sat May 18, 2013 6:28 pm

Does the powercreep cancel out the revamps? I was down to about 7/600 before the level 8 revamp, but level 8 and 9 together seemed to add about 60-70 turns. I got really really close to doing 7-day again over the holidays, but gave up after I got tired of putting up with wandering monsters.

That was before the Castle revamp, iirc. Are the recent IotMs good enough that you can still finish in about 600 turns? Maybe I just sucked at adapting to the new stuff. At any rate, your plan looks fine; similar to what I'm planning to do whenever I drag my carcass out of semi-retirement and make an attempt.

As for clock vs. time, I seem to recall D2 spleen being fairly easy if the RNG wasn't out to get you at the Friar's. I always just saved that slot for a borrowed time in case I needed it (and rarely did), then went for it and put off the broken clock until later if I happened to get screwed. That same strategy should still apply, as the early game hasn't really changed that much.

As for maid, I can see the argument for skipping it, especially if you're getting the turncount down there.
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iron bob
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Re: HCO run plan critique.

Post by iron bob » Sat May 18, 2013 8:41 pm

The friar's cottage is pretty great for HCO, due to new plants every day. The jung man frees up a fax or two previously used on ghosts. The rhino gives a banish, moxie/PP/init boost, or big stats combat each day. Taffies are potentially very handy depending on RNG cooperation. The revised level 8 quest only uses a few more turns, although it does eat up two faxes (unless you are feeling very lucky with that first assassin) vs. zero previously. The revised level 9 quest does add a bunch of turns and goodbye 21k meat, but it also frees up a fax.

Of course, this all adds a bunch of new fiddliness, on top of HCO's previous uber-fiddliness. But speed oriented players who hate fiddly shouldn't be touching HCO in the first place.

Draco Cracona
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Re: HCO run plan critique.

Post by Draco Cracona » Sat May 18, 2013 10:52 pm

iron bob wrote:The friar's cottage is pretty great for HCO, due to new plants every day. The jung man frees up a fax or two previously used on ghosts. The rhino gives a banish, moxie/PP/init boost, or big stats combat each day. Taffies are potentially very handy depending on RNG cooperation. The revised level 8 quest only uses a few more turns, although it does eat up two faxes (unless you are feeling very lucky with that first assassin) vs. zero previously. The revised level 9 quest does add a bunch of turns and goodbye 21k meat, but it also frees up a fax.

Of course, this all adds a bunch of new fiddliness, on top of HCO's previous uber-fiddliness. But speed oriented players who hate fiddly shouldn't be touching HCO in the first place.
Jung man is certainly excellent, as is the florist friar (while I was still working out what to do with the plants last run, I was still saving quite a few turns). Banishes.o. I have issues actually finding good places to banish where I'm not better off with the stats, most days. Taffy? Potentially very useful after you've got your eyes, got your 10 brickos and got your wealthier/happier resolutions. Not going to get many Taffies off, I feel, backed up by experience from this last run.

Level 9 revamp is where a lot of the turncount++ comes in, really. You're losing ~6 clovers (hermit script + 31337 clovers) as well as 10k meat, and costs.. oooh... 7 for oil P (assuming you'll need one extra fight for some more crude with cartels, that's 5+1+1 for the NC, extra crude and then 5 cartels), then 15ish for Twin, and 8 for Boo (2 clues, 5 combats, 1 ending NC), for ~32 extra turns+ ~6 clovers+10k, which probably comes out to about 50 turns. As for L10, that's trickier to guess. Probably a slightly longer quest there, in exchange for less swing.

The castle revamp did bring the new clover adv in the basement, which probably saves ~3 turns or so, I'd guess. You're left with a miner fax, which kind of sucks compared to other faxes, mainly because you can just clover the ores and avoid mining pushing back your poncho for a few days.

Overall, HCO has certainly slowed down. I'd guess by about 20 turns pre-florist? Hard to fully evaluate how many adv the florist saves, but it's certainly whole turns in airship and gameinform, so probably... 5ish, as a rough guess? Probably sounds about right. With the friars, I should be fine to hit 7 even wth my usual rubbish yields from consumables, just wanted to check here that I wasn't making any mistakes there, considering how much lower I usually am.

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maddsurgeon
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Re: HCO run plan critique.

Post by maddsurgeon » Sun May 19, 2013 12:58 am

You're spending combats in A-Boo Peak? I haven't done a serious run since December, but it seems to me that two clovers is the way to go, doing it all with the noncombats. Are those clovers eaten up? It would be interesting to discuss a clover breakdown... esp. since the powerlevelling equation has changed with the GamePro magazine.
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lightwolf
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Re: HCO run plan critique.

Post by lightwolf » Sun May 19, 2013 3:05 am

you could start here

Apparently a-boo clover is worth 3.8 for 2 clues. I'm guessing half that for just the one. I've had some runs recently where I farm all 3 in those 4-5 combats. And other runs that were lazy or casual so i just clovered twice...


Does using 4 clues right away alow you to skip the adv from the intro text? I forget...

You can skip the into text in the twin peaks if you use 4 rusty headge clippers...

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maddsurgeon
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Re: HCO run plan critique.

Post by maddsurgeon » Sun May 19, 2013 7:10 am

lightwolf wrote:you could start here

Apparently a-boo clover is worth 3.8 for 2 clues. I'm guessing half that for just the one. I've had some runs recently where I farm all 3 in those 4-5 combats. And other runs that were lazy or casual so i just clovered twice...


Does using 4 clues right away alow you to skip the adv from the intro text? I forget...

You can skip the into text in the twin peaks if you use 4 rusty headge clippers...
The intro text doesn't cost an adventure. But what I wasn't realizing was that each A-Boo Clue gives a full 30%, so that last 20% is wasted, so I can see how it makes sense to just farm a third clue.

Thanks for the link to the clover math!
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Guiseppi
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Re: HCO run plan critique.

Post by Guiseppi » Sun May 19, 2013 10:08 am

The peak starts at 98%. With three clues, you've got to cover that last 8%, which is four combats. It's pretty easy to get your third clue within those four combats. More than once, I've gotten all three clues within those four combats and saved the clover.

Clover twice: 2 turns (plus two clovers) + 4 non-combats
Clover once: 1 turn (plus one clover) + 4 combats (one clue drop) + 3 non-combats
Clover zero times: 4 combats (three clue drops, with luck) + 3 non-combats

All options require the peak-ending non-combat at the end, so that's a wash. If you can get one clue to drop, you're going from 6 turns to 8 turns, but you're going from 6 statless to 4 statless and you're saving a clover. If you're lucky and get all three clues, you're only adding 1 turn, four of those are combats, and you used no clovers. I always try to get them to drop naturally first, if I can.

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Pewt
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Re: HCO run plan critique.

Post by Pewt » Sun May 19, 2013 10:23 am

On average (200-234%ish item drop) you'll see 2 clues from the first four ghosts. If you get 2 with that much item drop, it might be worth farming the third depending on how many turns you expect your clovers to save elsewhere (it presumably is). If you get only 1, definitely clover. Either way, yeah, now that clues are [use]able rather than firing automatically there's no reason not to fight 4 ghosts first.

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NotJim
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Re: HCO run plan critique.

Post by NotJim » Wed Jun 26, 2013 5:59 am

Well after giving this a shot again after over 2 and a half years I'm staring at maybe ~20 turns to finish with 549 turns played, with quality plays such as 6 spare clovers remaining and this frequently featuring.

Draco's plan looks fine overall i think, some rough tweaks but nothing major... in terms of fiddliness honestly once you hit the airship the run starts feeling like it runs really smoothly, with only early game (levels 1-8) being the culprit IMO.

I think miner fax is fine, if you delay that too long you're pretty much unable to do anything useful without the 5k in dense. Or you could runaway in the mine although from SCNP experience that seems like a terrible option.

Might have more thoughts if I end up giving this another shot

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