What the WHAT?

This is where you spade, shovel and sickle. Or is it reap?
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stupac2
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What the WHAT?

Post by stupac2 » Tue Mar 23, 2010 3:49 pm

Last night I got a 2-turn cyrpt side zone. This is supposed to be impossible (I'll post the log when I get home tonight, and I'll send the entire ascension log to any skeptics out there). Other people have been reporting similarly impossible things, such as getting all 3 azazel items before your 3rd bureaucracy, without using any runaways.

I spoke with RT and he said that reports of these kind have been finding their way to him for the past few days. He suspects TPTB are messing with either delay(), scheduled encounters (his term, not mine), or both.

So I'm making this thread as a request for observations. If you see things that aren't supposed to be possible, or are extremely unlikely, post them here. I sent a message to RBB and will hopefully bug CDM about it if/when I see him, so hopefully we can get to the bottom of this.

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Re: What the WHAT?

Post by NightBird » Tue Mar 23, 2010 4:12 pm

Similar situation with friar's quest p2: got 2nd & 3rd items faster than usual (not N, N+10, N+20, but N, N+9, N+18 turns)

Code: Select all

[85] Friar's Gate
Encounter: We're on a Bridge!
You acquire an item: Azazel's unicorn

...

[94] Friar's Gate
Encounter: It's a Good Ship!
You acquire an item: Azazel's lollipop

...

[103] Friar's Gate
Encounter: Going Ballet Up
You acquire an item: Azazel's tutu
Full log of day 1 (current run): http://195.70.211.9/files/NightBird_20100321.txt

Prev. run:

Code: Select all


[178] Friar's Gate
Encounter: We're on a Bridge!
You acquire an item: Azazel's unicorn

...

[188] Friar's Gate
Encounter: It's a Good Ship!
You acquire an item: Azazel's lollipop

...

[198] Friar's Gate
Encounter: Going Ballet Up
You acquire an item: Azazel's tutu


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big_mara
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Re: What the WHAT?

Post by big_mara » Tue Mar 23, 2010 7:20 pm

Here was my gate from my current run:
[239-266]
+> [247] Got Azazel's unicorn
+> [256] Got Azazel's lollipop
+> [266] Got Azazel's tutu

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stupac2
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Re: What the WHAT?

Post by stupac2 » Tue Mar 23, 2010 8:38 pm

Here's the log with bullshit edited out:

Code: Select all

[135] Friar Ceremony Location

[135] Defiled Niche
[136] Defiled Niche
[137] Defiled Niche
[138] Defiled Niche
[138] Defiled Niche
[138] Defiled Niche
[138] Defiled Niche
[139] Defiled Niche
[140] Defiled Niche
[140] Defiled Niche

[141] Defiled Cranny
[142] Defiled Cranny
[143] Defiled Cranny
[143] Defiled Cranny
[144] Defiled Cranny
[145] Defiled Cranny
[146] Defiled Cranny
[146] Defiled Cranny
[147] Defiled Cranny
[148] Defiled Cranny
[149] Defiled Cranny
[149] Defiled Cranny
[151] Defiled Cranny
[152] Defiled Cranny
[153] Defiled Cranny
[154] Defiled Cranny

[155] Defiled Nook

[156] Defiled Alcove
[156] Defiled Alcove
[156] Defiled Alcove
[156] Defiled Alcove
[157] Defiled Alcove

[158] Defiled Nook
[159] Defiled Nook
[160] Defiled Nook
[161] Defiled Nook
[162] Defiled Nook

[163] Haert of the Cyrpt
So, for those keeping track at home:

Niche: 6
Cranny: 14 (Note: mafia fucked up, that second 149 should be 150, looking at the log that's clear).
Alcove: 2
Nook: 6

So... yeah definitely something weird going on there.

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Re: What the WHAT?

Post by preniqueezer » Tue Mar 23, 2010 8:40 pm

Quick! Everybody speedrun before they "fix" it!

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Re: What the WHAT?

Post by p4n1q » Tue Mar 23, 2010 9:02 pm

I get the gate thing, but, why is 2-turn alcove impossible?

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Re: What the WHAT?

Post by stupac2 » Tue Mar 23, 2010 9:09 pm

The previous theory for how it worked was that there was a random floor of at least 4 turns, then delay (or delay then floor I forget and can never find where this is spelled out) and then a roll with increasing odds for the boss. So the minimum number of turns was 5, 4 combats/noncombats before the boss, 0 delay, and immediately getting the roll.

I'd seen 5 a couple of times before, but never below. And the total number of turns spent up there is WAY below average.

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Re: What the WHAT?

Post by big_mara » Tue Mar 23, 2010 9:13 pm

stupac2 wrote:The previous theory for how it worked was that there was a random floor of at least 4 turns, then delay (or delay then floor I forget and can never find where this is spelled out) and then a roll with increasing odds for the boss. So the minimum number of turns was 5, 4 combats/noncombats before the boss, 0 delay, and immediately getting the roll.

I'd seen 5 a couple of times before, but never below. And the total number of turns spent up there is WAY below average.
Based on your log, if this is a change it seems extremely broken.

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Re: What the WHAT?

Post by lordhades15 » Tue Mar 23, 2010 9:20 pm

It's possible that something is broken right now. There is a mechanic that Jick and CDM have been playing with, that could cause these issues to occur. Let me know if these issues continue to occur. The problem should be fixed, but keep updating this thread with new data.
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Re: What the WHAT?

Post by Eevilcat » Wed Mar 24, 2010 11:23 am

I think this belongs here as from what I've read the Hidden Temple uses delay(). My multi did the whole thing in 5 turns earlier today, including a first turn choice adventure:
[754] Hidden Temple
Encounter: At Least It's Not Full Of Trash
choice.php?pwd&whichchoice=123&option=2

[755] Hidden Temple
Encounter: Poison Gas Trap
You gain 50 Magicalness
You gain a Mysticality point!

[756] Hidden Temple
Encounter: Rolling Stone Trap
You gain 50 Fortitude
You gain a Muscle point!

[757] Hidden Temple
Encounter: Dvorak's Revenge

tiles.php?action=jump&whichtile=4
tiles.php?action=jump&whichtile=6
tiles.php?action=jump&whichtile=3
tiles.php?action=jump&whichtile=5
tiles.php?action=jump&whichtile=7
tiles.php?action=jump&whichtile=6
tiles.php?action=jump&whichtile=3

[758] Hidden Temple
Encounter: No Visible Means of Support
choice.php?pwd&whichchoice=125&option=3

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stupac2
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Re: What the WHAT?

Post by stupac2 » Wed Mar 24, 2010 12:14 pm

Ee, that's unlikely but definitely possible before.

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Re: What the WHAT?

Post by Eevilcat » Wed Mar 24, 2010 4:47 pm

Yeah, I thought it might just have been possible before, but could equally be the related to this so worth mentioning. I checked the Friar's Gate on my multi and found that I got items on 9/9/9 but only Bureaucracy of the Damned before the first two and not before the third item. I picked up the air freshener as expected on the 8th adventure after the last Azazel item having spent the intervening ones in the Orc Chasm.

On my main account chasing spleen of steel was slightly off with items on 9/10/9 then another 10 to get the air freshener. I noticed that I had a free rest on both the 9s so maybe something is counting this as an actual adventure. Likewise 3 of the last 10 adventures were a shore trip so it could be that wasn't included in the count - I thought you should get the steel item on the seventh adventure after picking up the final azazel item.

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Re: What the WHAT?

Post by p4n1q » Wed Mar 24, 2010 5:28 pm

stupac2 wrote:The previous theory for how it worked was that there was a random floor of at least 4 turns, then delay (or delay then floor I forget and can never find where this is spelled out) and then a roll with increasing odds for the boss. So the minimum number of turns was 5, 4 combats/noncombats before the boss, 0 delay, and immediately getting the roll.
Apparently something is getting messed with, but, couldn't you just turn down the choice NC five times in a row, and then get the boss? I've gotten Skull, Skull, Skull nine times in a row before.

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Re: What the WHAT?

Post by lostcalpolydude » Wed Mar 24, 2010 5:44 pm

p4n1q wrote:Apparently something is getting messed with, but, couldn't you just turn down the choice NC five times in a row, and then get the boss? I've gotten Skull, Skull, Skull nine times in a row before.
Declined noncombats don't count toward minimum turns needed in the zone, free runaways from combats do. It appears that the bug was counting skipped noncombats, like in the cyrpt, friars, and apparently free rests for things that cared about the global turn counter. And maybe other things that no one noticed.
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stupac2
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Re: What the WHAT?

Post by stupac2 » Wed Mar 24, 2010 6:51 pm

I'm not 100% that was it, lost. I think it might have been that the floors and delay themselves were being messed with.

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Re: What the WHAT?

Post by Eleron » Thu Mar 25, 2010 5:22 am

lostcalpolydude wrote:
p4n1q wrote:Apparently something is getting messed with, but, couldn't you just turn down the choice NC five times in a row, and then get the boss? I've gotten Skull, Skull, Skull nine times in a row before.
Declined noncombats don't count toward minimum turns needed in the zone, free runaways from combats do. It appears that the bug was counting skipped noncombats, like in the cyrpt, friars, and apparently free rests for things that cared about the global turn counter. And maybe other things that no one noticed.
Free rests? That sounds extremely strange, unless your turn counter actually went up. Rest sounds quite likely indeed, and is a more consistent way for the game to work than it currently does anyway =P

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Re: What the WHAT?

Post by HippoKing » Wed Apr 07, 2010 11:11 am

stupac2 wrote:The previous theory for how it worked was that there was a random floor of at least 4 turns, then delay (or delay then floor I forget and can never find where this is spelled out) and then a roll with increasing odds for the boss. So the minimum number of turns was 5, 4 combats/noncombats before the boss, 0 delay, and immediately getting the roll.

I'd seen 5 a couple of times before, but never below. And the total number of turns spent up there is WAY below average.
Your log looks like you used 3 free runaways and spent 2 turns, which seems to line up with a delay of 0 and immediately getting the roll. Unfortunately I can't actually tell because you edited the 'bullshit' out of the log :P

I see no reason why it couldn't be done in a single turn with enough runaways.

What is the problem?

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stupac2
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Re: What the WHAT?

Post by stupac2 » Wed Apr 07, 2010 12:05 pm

I didn't use runaways. Why would anyone ever use runaways in the cyrpt? I skipped noncombats.

Regardless talking with CDM skipped noncombats were decrementing the floor or delay or both. He fixed that. Which is... umm... good?

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Re: What the WHAT?

Post by HippoKing » Wed Apr 07, 2010 12:58 pm

Oh OK that makes a lot more sense.

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