Spade New Zones!

This is where you spade, shovel and sickle. Or is it reap?
Post Reply
User avatar
slaphappy snark
Widdle Fudge Bunny
Posts: 2689
Joined: Fri Apr 04, 2008 1:27 pm
Location: SF Bay Area

Spade New Zones!

Post by slaphappy snark » Tue Feb 15, 2011 4:57 pm

Clan devs hint that there is supposedly some unknown mechanic in Pandamonium that may be repeated in the revamped Knob zones. It may be related to combat modifiers! (Try those first!)
Example Steps from Eleron wrote:Step 1) Figure out what encounters exist in the various revamped knob zones, and what they do.
Step 2) Figure out when the encounters appear. What are the combat/noncombat rates, and the conditionals, etc.?
[Step 3) Pandamonium is similar, so have a look there as well after the knob is all figured out, as a bonus thing to do.]

Prizes:
Post special encounters in thread (first person per encounter, knob only): 10k
Contribute meaningfully to data collection and analysis: 50k to 250k (or more!), depending on level of contribution
Write up AFH presents and/or wiki info, if this makes sense: 500k (will be split if a team effort)
Depending on what comes out of this, additional prizes may be added for various things

I guess deal with data here in this thread for now, until suggested otherwise.

User avatar
Eleron
Has a thing!
Posts: 870
Joined: Tue Jun 03, 2008 1:52 pm

Re: Spade New Zones!

Post by Eleron » Tue Feb 15, 2011 8:40 pm

Athe, who doesn't have access to contest forum wrote:OSMOSMMMMMOSSMMOMSMOSOSMOOOSSSMMSOOOSMOMMMOSSOOMOSSMOSSSMSOOSSMSSOMOOSSSMOOOMSSM

S= Sous Chef
O= Oven
M= Master Chef

Totals:
O 26
S 29
M 25

Drops with +156.2 item:

S:
Wad of dough: 9
Knob Goblin spatula: 6
Knob sausage: 9
Tomato: 14

M:
Spices: 10
Knob mushroom: 6
Knob Goblin spatula: 8
Dry noodles: 7

O:
overcookie: 13
Oven mitts: 3

User avatar
stupac2
Oh my! Guy with Pie!
Posts: 3027
Joined: Mon Dec 08, 2008 10:04 pm
Location: Stanford, CA
Contact:

Re: Spade New Zones!

Post by stupac2 » Wed Feb 16, 2011 12:59 am

http://forums.kingdomofloathing.com/vb/ ... stcount=94

My guess is that's the thing eleron has been talking about for weeks.

User avatar
Instalite
AFH
Posts: 89
Joined: Sun Jul 27, 2008 12:07 pm

Re: Spade New Zones!

Post by Instalite » Wed Feb 16, 2011 8:50 am

Looks like the mechanic is what Jick said.

At +20% combat, I got the locker noncombat (weird friars-mechanic adventure) in the barracks on the 9th adventure in the zone the first time (on two accounts) and then on the 8th adventure after taking the item or the 9th after skipping the adventure, for ~160 turns.

I got it sooner at +10%, but every 8 turns at +15% for ~200 turns. I think we can call it an 85% base combat rate.

Looting the locker consistently yielded a polearm when I didn't have one in inventory and pants with a polearm but no helm or pants. Then the helm and with the full outfit a donut.

Incidentally, both the barracks and the kitchens have a KGE captain semirare now (both with the "Anyway, this one must've come up to the kitchen to get a snack." line.) Getting one doesn't preclude getting the other for your next semirare.

User avatar
stupac2
Oh my! Guy with Pie!
Posts: 3027
Joined: Mon Dec 08, 2008 10:04 pm
Location: Stanford, CA
Contact:

Re: Spade New Zones!

Post by stupac2 » Wed Feb 16, 2011 9:50 am

Huh, that's not really a new mechanic, since it's how the friars work. There's either something more to it or Eleron's a stinky liar.

Also, good thing about the donut, that makes it a lot easier to spade.

User avatar
Eleron
Has a thing!
Posts: 870
Joined: Tue Jun 03, 2008 1:52 pm

Re: Spade New Zones!

Post by Eleron » Wed Feb 16, 2011 10:15 am

Woo, base mechanic spaded by Jick in one day! :)

(That's not how the friars work. It's close to how the spooky forest works, but that one has a bazillion conditionals to make it happen. Now it's simple.)

User avatar
stupac2
Oh my! Guy with Pie!
Posts: 3027
Joined: Mon Dec 08, 2008 10:04 pm
Location: Stanford, CA
Contact:

Re: Spade New Zones!

Post by stupac2 » Wed Feb 16, 2011 10:24 am

The way insta spaded it would perfectly describe how the friars work as well, since he ran +combat. I'm assuming that you're saying that the cap is from the previous time getting the noncombat, but nothing insta posted says that's true. I had actually intended on saying that in my first post but forgot.

And anyway, there's still nothing really new there.

User avatar
slaphappy snark
Widdle Fudge Bunny
Posts: 2689
Joined: Fri Apr 04, 2008 1:27 pm
Location: SF Bay Area

Re: Spade New Zones!

Post by slaphappy snark » Wed Feb 16, 2011 11:14 am

Wow, this contest was super effective.

It at least looks like the friars and the spooky forest from the player's perspective, even if it is done in a spiffier way.

Also, I have been led to believe that there is maybe something else going on, at least in Pandamonium, that would allow the quest to be sped up. I don't really see how this mechanic does that. Are there any thematically sense-making effects you guys can think of that might do stuff in Pandamonium? (If this is not real and I or someone else was on crack, I am kind of hoping Eleron or Pantsypoo will say something...)

User avatar
playultm8
Gatekeeper of Hell
Posts: 299
Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2010 1:47 am

Re: Spade New Zones!

Post by playultm8 » Wed Feb 16, 2011 11:30 am

So does this mean that Jick gets the prize money, or does he have to post here to claim it?

User avatar
stupac2
Oh my! Guy with Pie!
Posts: 3027
Joined: Mon Dec 08, 2008 10:04 pm
Location: Stanford, CA
Contact:

Re: Spade New Zones!

Post by stupac2 » Wed Feb 16, 2011 11:50 am

This isn't totally spaded. We don't know if that ceiling changes with -combat, which eleron sorta implied in chat. Although maybe not. My Norwegian is a little rusty.

User avatar
reverkiller
Promoter of Heck
Posts: 261
Joined: Sun Feb 28, 2010 10:45 am

Re: Spade New Zones!

Post by reverkiller » Wed Feb 16, 2011 12:41 pm

This is kind of unrelated, but I really want to know the combat rate and mob distribution of the Treasury and the drop rate of the flimsy clipboard. I'm in HC right now and kind of a spading noob, so I would gladly compensate someone for their effort.

User avatar
Instalite
AFH
Posts: 89
Joined: Sun Jul 27, 2008 12:07 pm

Re: Spade New Zones!

Post by Instalite » Wed Feb 16, 2011 1:17 pm

Oh, right. It didn't occur to me that it could count from anywhere but the last occurrence. To clarify, I got one sooner at +10% and then the next one eight adventures after that and so on at +15%.

Until today I thought that was what the friars quest did. In my defence, I wasn't playing when that revamp rolled.
Last edited by Instalite on Wed Feb 16, 2011 1:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
thacon
Fiendishly At Large
Posts: 1553
Joined: Wed Dec 02, 2009 1:13 pm
Location: New York

Re: Spade New Zones!

Post by thacon » Wed Feb 16, 2011 1:21 pm

reverkiller wrote:This is kind of unrelated, but I really want to know the combat rate and mob distribution of the Treasury and the drop rate of the flimsy clipboard. I'm in HC right now and kind of a spading noob, so I would gladly compensate someone for their effort.
I failed to get a clipboard to drop at +523% items. So you're looking at 15% or less.

EDIT: I had one fail to drop today at +539.8%, but in the next hundred turns, I didn't miss a single one at 559.8%. 15% seems pretty likely.
Last edited by thacon on Thu Feb 17, 2011 3:38 pm, edited 2 times in total.

User avatar
stupac2
Oh my! Guy with Pie!
Posts: 3027
Joined: Mon Dec 08, 2008 10:04 pm
Location: Stanford, CA
Contact:

Re: Spade New Zones!

Post by stupac2 » Wed Feb 16, 2011 8:15 pm

Instalite, I'm a bit confused by your statement. If you take the adventure on turn [N] and are running +20% combats, would you expect the next one on turn [N+8]?

If so, things are a bit weird. Always killing monsters and always taking the donut (so shit would be easier to parse) I never saw a gap (where gap would be 8 above) bigger than 7 at -25%. Granted shit got pretty infrequent down there. Here's the distribution:

Code: Select all

1	22
2	21
3	12
4	7
5	6
6	2
7	3
8	0
9	0
It'll probably take more testing to see if something funky is going on besides "you will always get it in at most X turns".

Here's some data for -15%:

Code: Select all

1	19
2	17
3	13
4	9
5	5
6	1
7	6
8	0
9	0

User avatar
Instalite
AFH
Posts: 89
Joined: Sun Jul 27, 2008 12:07 pm

Re: Spade New Zones!

Post by Instalite » Thu Feb 17, 2011 6:05 am

[N] and [N + 8] is what I mean, yes. Regardless of choice, since skipping it doesn't take a turn.

User avatar
stupac2
Oh my! Guy with Pie!
Posts: 3027
Joined: Mon Dec 08, 2008 10:04 pm
Location: Stanford, CA
Contact:

Re: Spade New Zones!

Post by stupac2 » Thu Feb 17, 2011 9:50 am

Interesting, so I have observed a shorter window. It could just be that delta = 8 is rarer at high -combat (duh), I'll run more turns to see. Oops ran at -15% instead of -25%. Anyway, still no 8's.

Also, it does matter whether you're taking the adventure or not. If you're not and get it twice in a row the delta is 0, whereas if you are it's 1. So I think if I weren't taking it I'd expect a max delta of 7, if accepting it leads to a max of 8. However, I am taking it. So there you go.

Code: Select all

1	19
2	15
3	13
4	6
5	7
6	1
7	10
8	0
9	0
Combined -15% data:

Code: Select all

1	38
2	32
3	26
4	15
5	12
6	2
7	16
8	0
9	0

I realized that I took some +combat data to see things for myself, and looking at it there were 8 combats between things.

So if you get a noncombat on turn N, it looks like this:
N: noncombat
N+1: combat
N+2: combat
N+3: combat
N+4: combat
N+5: combat
N+6: combat
N+7: combat
N+8: combat
N+9: noncombat.

That means by measure the largest delta we should see is 9. Meaning while running -combat I haven't see the TWO largest gaps we can see. If I get a bug up my ass at work today I might try to figure out how likely that is if the cap is still 9, but I think that with 900 turns it's not very likely. Especially given that 16 sitting there at a delta of 7 for -15%.

User avatar
Instalite
AFH
Posts: 89
Joined: Sun Jul 27, 2008 12:07 pm

Re: Spade New Zones!

Post by Instalite » Thu Feb 17, 2011 1:18 pm

What I'm seeing is noncombat (taken) - 7 combats - noncombat and noncombat (skipped) - 8 combats - noncombat. That is:

N: noncombat
N: combat (optionally)
N+1: combat
[...]
N+8: noncombat

Which is either 7 or 8 combats, but always 8 turns. I am not seeing 9.

User avatar
stupac2
Oh my! Guy with Pie!
Posts: 3027
Joined: Mon Dec 08, 2008 10:04 pm
Location: Stanford, CA
Contact:

Re: Spade New Zones!

Post by stupac2 » Thu Feb 17, 2011 1:58 pm

Okay, I didn't take the noncombat in that instance either so the max in my -combat spading should be 7. Still, only seeing 6.

User avatar
stupac2
Oh my! Guy with Pie!
Posts: 3027
Joined: Mon Dec 08, 2008 10:04 pm
Location: Stanford, CA
Contact:

Re: Spade New Zones!

Post by stupac2 » Thu Feb 17, 2011 8:14 pm

I made a thingie: https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?hl= ... l9wC#gid=0

Should be easier to track that way. I'll probably start doing some other combat rates on the hobo multis.

Okay, after testing a bunch of rates I've confirmed that the gap delta is 8 when you're taking the noncombat. The weirdness comes from the fact that it's skippable, and when you get it it sets the ceiling to turn N+9. If you take it then that's effectively N+8, if you skip it it stays N+9. So if you're taking them you will never see more than 7 combats between turns, if you're skipping you'll never see more than 8.

What I'd really like to know is why on god's green earth this mechanic was such a big deal to Eleron. Want to clear that up? As far as I can tell it's completely hum-drum.


(I also found a silly typo that was keeping me from displaying data for N=1, that's been fixed in the data above).

User avatar
Eleron
Has a thing!
Posts: 870
Joined: Tue Jun 03, 2008 1:52 pm

Re: Spade New Zones!

Post by Eleron » Fri Feb 18, 2011 10:43 am

It's a new mechanic!

Anyway, barracks seem to be good(?), so rest of zones to go! And the little extra thing in pandamonium that's another adaptation-of-something-else-without-ungodly-superlikely-conditionals. Jick just did the hard mechanic spading, filling in all the details still remains =)

User avatar
stupac2
Oh my! Guy with Pie!
Posts: 3027
Joined: Mon Dec 08, 2008 10:04 pm
Location: Stanford, CA
Contact:

Re: Spade New Zones!

Post by stupac2 » Fri Feb 18, 2011 11:06 am

Which pandamonium, comedy or rock? Also, pandamonium is hard to spade since everything goes away after you finish the quest. I can sic the faxbot army on it eventually, but there's kind of a lot to do with them first.

User avatar
Eleron
Has a thing!
Posts: 870
Joined: Tue Jun 03, 2008 1:52 pm

Re: Spade New Zones!

Post by Eleron » Wed Apr 20, 2011 10:27 am

slaphappy snark wrote:Clan devs hint that there is supposedly some unknown mechanic in Pandamonium that may be repeated in the revamped Knob zones. It may be related to combat modifiers! (Try those first!)

Prizes:
Post special encounters in thread (first person per encounter, knob only): 10k
Contribute meaningfully to data collection and analysis: 50k to 250k (or more!), depending on level of contribution
Write up AFH presents and/or wiki info, if this makes sense: 500k (will be split if a team effort)
This has been done for quite some time now, and starwed is resisting my prods to post here, so I'll just do it instead =)

Jick totally won the contest, hands down. Full and accurate description of forced non-combat mechanic in a day after contest was posted, that guy is a spading god!

Then there was Panda spading, to figure out all the extra weirdness there. Biggest winner there is starwed, who figured out that the bosses came quicker with +combat% running and had upper limits to how long you could go without finding them, all the important stuff :)

User avatar
slaphappy snark
Widdle Fudge Bunny
Posts: 2689
Joined: Fri Apr 04, 2008 1:27 pm
Location: SF Bay Area

Re: Spade New Zones!

Post by slaphappy snark » Wed Apr 20, 2011 11:15 am

Are starwed's results written up somewhere on the wiki or on kolspading? That was pretty much the biggest part of the prize, so please post links. Thanks!

User avatar
transplanted_entwife
Oh my! Guy with Pie!
Posts: 1577
Joined: Tue Jun 22, 2010 6:49 pm
Location: Nebraska

Re: Spade New Zones!

Post by transplanted_entwife » Wed Apr 20, 2011 1:13 pm

Is this the relevant post on KoL Spading?

http://kolspading.com/forums/viewtopic. ... 2705#p2640
Image


User avatar
slaphappy snark
Widdle Fudge Bunny
Posts: 2689
Joined: Fri Apr 04, 2008 1:27 pm
Location: SF Bay Area

Re: Spade New Zones!

Post by slaphappy snark » Thu Apr 21, 2011 12:09 am

Prizes sent! Thanks for tracking down those links, Eleron and TE!

Post Reply