After compiling all of this I noticed it's somewhat more coherent than I expected, so I'll post what I have for feedback/suggestions and link darth here to add whatever I missed or messed up whenever he gets on.
Note that when I say "conditional" this was only tested with monsters that have multiple types depending on ascension, gender, etc, and I'm not talking about delay()/base rejection rate (astronomer), etc.
First off, the experiments and hard data (mostly done today and yesterday by darth in AoJ aftercore and myself in NP aftercore):
-Back in december I noticed that if you banish a whole zone but have sniffed a conditional monster (meat blob, clingy pirate are the ones I tested on) you get white screened.
-Darth noticed while spading the cream staff that olfaction and cream stack (so olfact = 4 copies, cream = 3 copies, olfact+cream = 6 copies, all total) and that banishing isn't entirely overridden by olfaction; it still removes the initial copy, so olfaction goes from 4 copies to 3, cream goes from 3 to 2, etc. This is doubled if there are two copies of the monster, so astronomer goes from 8 to 6 or somesuch.
-I burned some turns in the Haunted Pantry and saw 14 meat blobs, 18ish (don't remember exactly?) elbow macaroni, and 23 of each can. Darth burned some turns with 2 monsters banished and saw 14ish blobs and 36ish of the other monster, so blobs have 50% rejection rate or close to it. The exact number doesn't matter for the rest of this post, just the fact that it's 0%<rr<100%.
-I burned some turns in the f'c'le and saw 12 creamy pirates and 14 clingy pirates (everything else was banished), so those look like 0% rejection rate or close (and I don't see why a monster would have 5% RR or something equivalently silly). I also saw 5 clingy pirates in a row with every other monster banished, something which sounds intuitively obvious but isn't (I'll get back to that later).
-Darth noticed that the white screen happens even if you haven't banished a meat blob but you have banished the other monster, but it only happens if the meat blob's rejection rate comes up (so banishing clearly works differently on some conditional monsters). Note that this doesn't occur unless you've sniffed it; otherwise you get tumbleweed.
-Astronomers still show up when sniffed and banished. Unsure on the rate (conflicts with the above, but the rejection rate on conditional monsters seems to be the least important part; as I mentioned earlier, clingy pirate has no rejection rate and yet with olfaction+banish it still white screens an empty zone).
-If you banish the HitS other than astronomers, you get a white screen whenever the astronomer is rejected, same as for meat blobs above. You don't have to have sniffed it.
-I switched genders halfway through a cocktail napkin banish + sniff on clingy pirate, and it was still both sniffed and banished. Clearly there's something weird going on with how the game handles such monsters. Later on pants faxed me a female clingy pirate and sniffing it gave me male clingy pirates, so this wasn't related to switching genders midway through. The game might just recognize what's going on and point you to the other monster, though.
-I noticed that without sniff, but an entirely banished f'c'le, I only saw crusty pirates; I even tried banishing them with two sources at once (just in case) and it had no effect. Haven't tried 6 regular banishes though (no cocktail napkin/valuable trinket) so it's impossible to say whether this is related to some special behaviour of them or to the fact that there's a conditional monster in the zone. The first time through, Crusty Pirates were the last monster banished (with a popper and later a popper + vmask), but the second time through they were the second monster banished, with Harold's Bell.
-If you banish+sniff a conditional and don't banish the rest of the zone (or at least leave one monster unbanished), the conditional monster never shows up.
-The white screening doesn't happen if a noncombat is rolled for (and presumably the same goes for superlikelies).
Okay, so, what does this mean? From here on out everything is guesswork:
-It looks like banishing interacts a bit differently with olfaction than was previously thought.
-It seems like rejection rate happens in two phases.
#1) 100% rejection rate from a banished but otherwise boring monster. This prevents the monster from being added to the selection list, but doesn't prevent copies from olfaction-like effects.
#2) Rejection rate due to special conditions. The combat select should probably look something like this (pseudocode):
Code: Select all
var LastMonsterIndex var TempMonster var MonsterList var RejectedMonsterList Label: Start LastMonsterIndex = Rand(1,size of MonsterList) Label: Post-index If LastMonsterIndex is invalid return Tumbleweed TempMonster = Pick LastMonsterIndex from MonsterList If TempMonster is in the queue and Rand(1,100) <= 75 go to Start If TempMonster is in RejectedMonsterList LastMonsterIndex = Rand(1,size of MonsterList) such that it's different from last time go to Post-Index If TempMonster has a rejection rate, and it's rejected add TempMonster to RejectedMonsterList LastMonsterIndex = Rand(1,size of MonsterList) such that it's different from last time go to Post-Index return TempMonster
Note that it seems that banishing on conditional monsters specifically modifiers a second special rejection rate they have rather than just giving them a flat 100% before olfaction, so that you'll never see them when banished and so that it will consistently break the zone if there are no alternatives, since it keeps picking and rejecting different versions of that monster rather than picking a tumbleweed. I'd assume that this was related to the fact that most of these monsters toggle by ascension or zone, but then that doesn't explain the white screen from astronomers, who are a consistent monster.
-I really have no clue why I only saw crusty pirates, and am at a loss for how to explain what could cause that.
-Find out whether Astronomers show up at a different rate than other monsters while sniffed+banished.
-Find out whether the f'c'le behaves the same way with 6 normal banishes as it does with 4 normal and 2 special.
-Triple check that clingy pirate is actually 0% RR.