Vcrisis

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Mercenary9
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Vcrisis

Post by Mercenary9 » Tue Jul 29, 2008 2:07 am

Alright I'm going to be doing some softcore runs in a while and was planning on trying out Vcrisis. I think I get the brute of the idea but any further explaining would be helpful.
So obviously need V mask, and your trying to do a critical hit on the last round to increase stats. So you want as many x critical hit multipliers as you want. Is there anything important I'm missing?
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lostcalpolydude
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Post by lostcalpolydude » Tue Jul 29, 2008 2:37 am

I think that using a ranged weapon as a muscle class, or a melee weapon as a moxie class, is useful, because it means that non-critical attacks won't hit. All that's left is making sure you kill the enemy by round 30, which critical hit multipliers would help with somewhat (but they aren't essential).

I haven't actually used Vcrisis, except completely by accident at one point where the 30 round limit was my only obstacle. So, listen to other people if they say differently.
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Post by alacrity » Tue Jul 29, 2008 2:50 am

Combat familiars tend to be detrimental to your efforts. Old mainstays like the hobo/ggg or the pixie become slightly less optimal, strangely enough. Time to consider breaking out your dandy lion! And, wait, hello volleychaun, how are you doing?

I've never tried this, but I imagine it would be quite possible to carefully control your hobo/ggg feeding (yes, this means no ode, the horror!) giving them just enough so that they'll definitely run out of shots before killing your monster. This is perfect because I bet that, like me, you looked at vcrisis and said to yourself, "Self, I demand more micromanagement from my playstyles!"

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Post by KujjieKujjieKoo » Tue Jul 29, 2008 9:14 am

Let's take a step back and understand how crisis works from a code perspective. Until recently, your attack was rolled to see if it hit, and if successful, an additional roll was made to see if it was a critical. Criticals could only occur on attacks which would have been successful anyway, it just improved the damage. An innocent change was made, a "trivial" update, and now the critical hit roll is done first. If successful, an automatic hit with critical is done, no initial "to-hit" roll is made. This means you can hit any monster in the game with any stat level, regardless of ML, if a critical hit is rolled.

Vivala mask has many nice effects which trigger off of critical attacks, but the most relevant to this discussion is +4 substats if your finishing blow is a critical. If you could somehow insure the killing blow was a critical, a substantial stat bonus could be reaped.

Vivala critical stasis is born when these two small effects are combined with each other. There are three ways to take advantage of crisis, all have their merits. Note: Only physical attacks can critical. Spells and items (toy mercs in particular) will never critical. To successfully trigger V-mask effects, either plain vanilla attacks or shieldbutt / LTS will be needed.

1) Just attack with shieldbutt / LTS. While no attempt to stasis is done here, no additional RL time is needed either. By using physical attacks, you give yourself a chance to critical each round, and hopefully you'll stumble onto some bonus adventures, items, or stats. This method will give the least amount of bonuses and stats, but requires the least amount of time and effort.

2) Just attack with your weapon. For this to work best, the governing stat for your weapon of choice should be sufficiently low to never hit the monster normally. In many cases this means using a ranged weapon (flaming juggler balls) for muscle classes or a melee weapon (ice sickle) for myst / moxie classes. However, it is possible to use your mainstat weapon when not buffing at all, and using sufficiently high +ML. Given the +muscle boost on the vivala mask, this in practice is harder to achieve as a muscle class. This method will rely on criticals as the sole means of damage, but will get the most bonus vivala triggers. It is also the most time intensive method, and will put yourself at the greatest risk of injury / round limit.

3) Deal ~90% damage via any method you choose, and then attack with your weapon to finish the monster off. (Note: 90% is just a rough estimation. As salien notes below, you're actually attempting to lower hp enough where a single critical is guaranteed to kill the monster.) The vanilla attacking part is the same as #2, however you only need a single critical to win a combat. This method could use any of the popular combat methods (merc-slinging, shieldbutt, spells, etc) to do the bulk of the damage, but be careful of dealing too much. The important point is knowing how much HP the monsters have, and how much you've dealt (I'd recommend using GM scripts to help track monster HP). This method requires the most attention to monsters, as you'll need to carefully manage your bulk damage, but generally needs fewer combat rounds since only 1 critical is needed to finish. You'll receive very few of the non-stat bonuses, as you're only trying to critical on the finishing blow, but this is probably the most efficient method to gain the +4 stats bonus.

How you choose to use Crisis greatly depends on how much RL time and effort you want to put into the strategy and what your goals are. As noted above by alacrity, combat familiars are generally problematic for this strategy, as their damage dealing ability can (and will) kill monsters, removing the Vivala bonus. Also note that you'll be taking a ton of damage from monsters while crisising. This is one time where Brimstone Beret & Boxers really shine, as it provides a hefty moxie boost and impressive DA. I'd also recommend using a pilgrim shield over a crimbo-offhand for the additional damage reduction.
Last edited by KujjieKujjieKoo on Sun Sep 07, 2008 11:27 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by slackerjack » Tue Jul 29, 2008 11:12 pm

Kujjie's post is the clearest, most thorough treatment of the strategy that I've encountered. From now on, I'm referring anyone who asks me about Vcrisis to this thread. :D

Thanks for enabling my continued laziness, Kujjie. >_>

alacrity wrote:I've never tried this, but I imagine it would be quite possible to carefully control your hobo/ggg feeding (yes, this means no ode, the horror!) giving them just enough so that they'll definitely run out of shots before killing your monster.

This is indeed possible. In practice, it's about as annoying as you'd imagine.

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Post by Mercenary9 » Tue Jul 29, 2008 11:36 pm

Very nice explanation Kujjie. Thanks for all the info.
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Post by salien » Wed Jul 30, 2008 3:52 pm

Kujjie's treatment is very very good; one additional point I'd make for usage #3 is that it's important to ensure you get the monster to the point where _just_ the normal hit will definitely kill the monster. If any source of damage other than the normal weapon damage + melee damage modifiers kills the monster, the crit effect will not trigger; in particular, if your critical damage falls just short of killing the monster, the V mask may fire one of its other, damaging crit bonuses (knives or firebomb), which may then kill the monster and not trigger the V mask crit stat bonus. This is in fact the main reason #3 gives more stats than #2; if not for the knives/firebomb crit bonuses, you could stick with #2 and be confident in getting the stat bonus every time (in addition to the turns and items, assuming no non-attack damage sources, and watching for the round limit). As it is, you cannot. (You could do a hybrid #2/#3 plan, where you relay on crits for all damage until/unless the monster's remaining HP falls outside the normal-crit-kill range but inside the crit-plus-knives/firebomb range, then using some other damaging method to get the monster inside the normal-crit-kill range. This means you combine the extra items and turns of #2 with the guaranteed stats of #3, but requires a pretty absurd amount of micromanagement. Unless you write a mafia script to do it for you...)

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Post by DarthDud » Thu Jul 31, 2008 12:24 pm

KujjieKujjieKoo wrote:Also note that you'll be taking a ton of damage from monsters while crisising. This is one time where Brimstone Beret & Boxers really shine, as it provides a hefty moxie boost and impressive DA. I'd also recommend using a pilgrim shield over a crimbo-offhand for the additional damage reduction.

Wuss.

(OK, I'll forgive the beret, but not the boxers and the shield!)

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Post by DiscoNeckTed » Fri Aug 01, 2008 10:05 am

DarthDud wrote:(OK, I'll forgive the beret, but not the boxers and the shield!)


I can't fit the Beret over my Corinth..
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Post by greycat » Fri Aug 01, 2008 2:53 pm

KujjieKujjieKoo wrote:The important point is knowing how much HP the monsters have, and how much you've dealt (I'd recommend using GM scripts to help track monster HP).


Can you point me to one that still works? Monster Stats has started falling apart over the last few months (even more so than it fell apart with NS13). Or did I simply fail to notice an updated version of it?

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Post by DarthDud » Fri Aug 01, 2008 2:57 pm

Mafia seems to generally have accurate monster HPs.

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Post by stupac2 » Sun Jan 11, 2009 12:09 am

DarthDud wrote:Mafia seems to generally have accurate monster HPs.


On my recent runs I've seen it going into -HP with the monster still alive. That could be entirely due to it not taking +ML into account though, I'm not sure.

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Post by NotJim » Sun Jan 11, 2009 12:30 am

stupac2 wrote:On my recent runs I've seen it going into -HP with the monster still alive. That could be entirely due to it not taking +ML into account though, I'm not sure.


At a guess, monster HP variance causes this.

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Post by stupac2 » Sun Jan 11, 2009 12:32 am

NotJim wrote:At a guess, monster HP variance causes this.


It was pretty deep into the negative, like -15. In the cyrpt. So more than I think variance would cover. I'll probably pay more attention on future runs though, maybe it is just variance.

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Post by lostcalpolydude » Mon Jan 12, 2009 10:01 am

Some monsters just have incorrect HP in mafia, or it's mistyped. For a while, protector spirits were listed with 8 HP instead of 80. In general it's pretty accurate, but it isn't perfect.
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Post by stupac2 » Mon Jan 12, 2009 10:06 am

lostcalpolydude wrote:Some monsters just have incorrect HP in mafia, or it's mistyped. For a while, protector spirits were listed with 8 HP instead of 80. In general it's pretty accurate, but it isn't perfect.


I've been finding that this run. I wonder what was causing the weirdness before, maybe I was wrong about some numbers going negative (but I swear it was happening regularly).

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Post by tetramaster » Mon Jan 19, 2009 1:27 pm

I've seen a few negatives in mafia as well. Happened quite a bit in the castle, but it wasn't that big of an issue.

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Post by zomg » Mon Jan 19, 2009 1:39 pm

I was fighting in the Ballroom, and I was using my sticker crossbow. Even though I was hitting for 2-3, the HP would go down 15+ every round. That would confuse the hell out of me.

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Post by Friederike » Mon Jan 19, 2009 1:43 pm

I've been using the last version of mafia, the one which doesn't recognize your accessories, so if I have, say, +50ml in accessories equipped, it's off by that. That might have been your problem, too.

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Post by Mister Mickey » Wed Apr 29, 2009 11:02 pm

i'm sure everyone has figured out by now that using the katana with Summer Siesta will ensure the critical hit

To do this you can't use spirit raindrop HP/ MP restore though...

and another cool thing? You can use this attack while in birdform...

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Post by lostcalpolydude » Wed Apr 29, 2009 11:10 pm

A guaranteed critical hit from the katana gives +4 stats. The ice sickle gives +3.75 stats. You get random critical hit kills, boosting that value to above +4 stats per combat. That's assuming you don't even try to do Vcrisis.

Some people might argue that it's worth the MP on a 2 day run to use a katana instead of an ice sickle, but for 3 days or longer you'll want an ice sickle unless you really don't care about going fast that run.
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