Speed (running & exercise)

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Speed (running & exercise)

Post by NardoLoopa » Wed Sep 21, 2011 8:14 pm

Found a great site: http://runkeeper.com

Perfect for a datajunkie like me who is very goal oriented. Keeps maps of runs, pacing info, etc. If you have a GPS phone it will map your run for you -- otherwise you plot via google mashup.

Only been running for 10 days but I've logged 28miles. Just got back from a 5mile run at a 9min pace.

23.7 BMI, for those keeping track. Not doing this to lose weight (23BMI is as low as I'd want to go). But I'm considering training for a marathon. Not sure if I really want to run one in January, though (as soon as I could be ready).

Most difficult problems I'm having right now are (in pressing order):
1) Nipple chaffing
2) What to do on "let your body rest" days -- because I still feel like running.

Going to try to get another 5miler in tomorrow morning with a friend.

The 1 mile in 6mins thing got me thinking about all this -- so thanks, Rac.

Edit: Split off from my weight loss thread - Rac
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Re: Raccoon vs the body mass index (I won!!!)

Post by Raccoon » Wed Sep 21, 2011 11:38 pm

I'll have to check that app out, although I do my running indoors on a treadmill. It's easier on the body, but probably harder on the mind. One day I ran 10 miles on the treadmill (86 minutes, 20 seconds), and the mental strain was pretty ridiculous. That day also pretty much quashed any ideas I might have had about running a marathon or even a half-marathon.

I am getting interested in running 5K or even 10K races. I seem to have regressed slightly since that 10 mile run, but my recent best 3 mile time was down to 21 minutes, 20 seconds, and my best 1 mile time is 6 minutes, 15 seconds.

Oh, and my BMI is down to 20.8. I think I heard that some clannies are (jokingly) wondering if I'm anorexic. I'm eating very well, around 2000-2500 calories a day. And my weight has been stable for the past two months or so, probably about 6 pounds below where I was when I posted my final "mission accomplished" entry, but that's I guess a factor of matching calorie burn to calorie intake. 20.8 may sound like a low BMI, but I do have a small frame, so I think I'm just lean and hopefully not scrawny.

Anyway, like Nardo, I take one day per week off (sometimes two). If I exercise 6 days, it's usually 2 days of resistance training and shorter cardio; 1-2 days of biking to work (about 6 miles roundtrip of very hilly terrain); and the rest straight cardio, with the longest runs being 6-7 miles generally.
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Re: Raccoon vs the body mass index (I won!!!)

Post by Eigenbasis » Thu Sep 22, 2011 2:06 am

There's also Fitocracy, which sort of turns logging workouts in to a game. You can "level up", get achievements, and go on "quests" to gain experience. I have invites. Anyone can send me a forum pm or kmail with their email address and I will send one.
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Re: Raccoon vs the body mass index (I won!!!)

Post by lotsofphil » Thu Sep 22, 2011 6:58 am

Raccoon, run outside. No one runs long races on treadmills.

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Re: Raccoon vs the body mass index (I won!!!)

Post by NardoLoopa » Thu Sep 22, 2011 7:02 am

I'd appreciate an invite, Eigen. Thanks.

4.5miles this morning. Slower, but I really hate mornings. Unfortunately, it's easiest to keep some sort of schedule if you work out in the morning since nobody offers to buy a round at the pub at 5am.

10mils on a mill? Rac, you really hate yourself, don't you. I used to do the mill a lot before I found this site, mostly so I could register my miles/pace. I was hitting some knee problems which went away when I left the mill. On that thing I can barely hit 3miles before quitting from exhaustion. About the only thing that can keep me going is watching WWII documentaries on the Hitler Channel -- it's really hard to punk out when you're watching marines storm Guadalcanal.
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Re: Raccoon vs the body mass index (I won!!!)

Post by Raccoon » Thu Sep 22, 2011 1:08 pm

NardoLoopa wrote:4.5miles this morning. Slower, but I really hate mornings. Unfortunately, it's easiest to keep some sort of schedule if you work out in the morning since nobody offers to buy a round at the pub at 5am.
I used to think I ran worse in the mornings, but now I'm not sure. During the summer, since I wasn't teaching, I got used to running after dropping my little son off at daycare, so typically running somewhere between 9:30 and 11:30. That seemed to work out well.

Now that school is in session, some days I have to wait until after I'm done teaching to go running, and that seems to throw me off.
10mils on a mill? Rac, you really hate yourself, don't you. I used to do the mill a lot before I found this site, mostly so I could register my miles/pace. I was hitting some knee problems which went away when I left the mill. On that thing I can barely hit 3miles before quitting from exhaustion. About the only thing that can keep me going is watching WWII documentaries on the Hitler Channel -- it's really hard to punk out when you're watching marines storm Guadalcanal.
I like the steady, controllable pace of the treadmill. But I do need to do some outdoor running if I'm going to be running 5K races.

On another note, I mentioned that I've regressed a little lately, perhaps due to a cold that I'm getting over now. But you've counter-inspired me, Nardo. Today I did some weightlifting on the machines, then walked a mile to warm up, and then ran a mile in 6:20. That's 5 seconds slower than my best time, but I'm satisfied given my recent running lameness. I didn't feel like I was laboring at any point, and I'm pretty sure I could've gone faster. Not sure if I could've gone 20 seconds faster, but anyway, it felt good.
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Re: Raccoon vs the body mass index (I won!!!)

Post by Raccoon » Mon Sep 26, 2011 9:37 pm

Maybe we should split off this part of the thread into a new topic, something like "Raccoon and Nardo's Excellent Running Adventures." :lol:

Anyway, knocked out 4 miles in 29:24 today.
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Re: Raccoon vs the body mass index (I won!!!)

Post by NardoLoopa » Tue Sep 27, 2011 5:18 am

Not bad, Rac!

Last week I ran 27miles. Tried for 8miles on Sunday, but fell short with 6.5. I forgot to bring water along and my system started complaining harshly, so I had to stop and find water. I'll try again this Sunday. Oddly the workout I'm following goes from 4miles max to 8 in one jump. Not sure how realistic that is.
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Re: Raccoon vs the body mass index (I won!!!)

Post by lotsofphil » Tue Sep 27, 2011 2:33 pm

NardoLoopa wrote:Oddly the workout I'm following goes from 4miles max to 8 in one jump. Not sure how realistic that is.
It is just fine unless you are dying at the end of your shorter runs. Run a little slower/easier on the long runs if things are bothering you.

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Re: Raccoon vs the body mass index (I won!!!)

Post by Raccoon » Tue Sep 27, 2011 5:02 pm

lotsofphil wrote:It is just fine unless you are dying at the end of your shorter runs. Run a little slower/easier on the long runs if things are bothering you.
I think this is right. When I did that 10 mile run, it was a jump from my previous long of 6 miles, but it was not really a problem (apart from the mental concentration required). It's really a matter of finding the right pace. I started out with 2 miles at a 9 min/mile pace and then gradually increased my speed. I think I ran the last 2 miles in 15 minutes or something like that.

What is this running program supposed to get you ready for? Surely not a 5K if it's calling for 8 mile runs. Half marathon? Marathon?

Meanwhile, this zombie-infested 5K obstacle course run sounds really cool. I mentioned it to Mrs. Raccoon yesterday, but she thinks it would freak the little raccoons out to see Daddy being chased by zombies. Still, I may see about going there alone. It's more than 10 months away, so perhaps I can get my regular 5K time down by then to under 20 minutes. (I think I'm around 22+ minutes right now. About to go to the gym, so maybe I'll see if I can run 5K in sub-22 mins.)
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Re: Raccoon vs the body mass index (I won!!!)

Post by NardoLoopa » Tue Sep 27, 2011 6:05 pm

In the program I'm doing there are three days were you do 5mil - slow, 5mil - slow, 8mil - moderate in a row (one run each day). I think my legs were just a bit tired from the other runs. And that's part of the point -- since this is prep for a marathon (16 weeks from the start day).

I figured, what the hell.

The other issue is the damn hills around here. Not a flat spot to be found. And while I think (given enough water) I could run 8mils flat w/o a problem, all the hills really test that.

Of course, it also doesn't help that I just got off the couch 2 weeks ago.
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Re: Raccoon vs the body mass index (I won!!!)

Post by Raccoon » Tue Sep 27, 2011 7:17 pm

Ah, okay. No marathon for me, just shorter distance races. It seems like half the co-workers in Mrs. Raccoon's office were training for marathons earlier. (It's a small office.) And it seems like they all get injured at some point or other.

Watch for overtraining, Nardo. You don't want to be like my buddy's wife, who overtrained and got a stress fracture in her hip. . . .

Anyway, today I succeeded in achieving one of my recent goals: 3 miles in sub-21 minutes. 20:51 to be exact.
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Re: Raccoon vs the body mass index (I won!!!)

Post by NardoLoopa » Tue Sep 27, 2011 7:55 pm

I lack of recovery time is one of the reasons I had trouble with the 8mil. I've been so happy to just run 4-5miles every day, trying to go slow on "off" days. I think I should probably just find something else to do because "slow" is still a 9.50pace for me. Going any slower is actually more tiring (long legs).

I definitely don't understand how stress-fractures happen. Or rather, how one could avoid it with a more measured training routine toward the same goal. There aren't really indicators that you're getting one, are there? It seems you don't know if you "over trained" until it's too late.

I'm following one of the regimes on RunKeeper. It's not "personalized" but it is by someone who knows what they're doing.

I need to try for 10miles this Sunday. If I only make 8 I'm going to do this week over again. The 16 week course doesn't land on my desired marathon day anyway. Who wants to run in January?!

Congrats on your speed goal, Rac!
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Re: Raccoon vs the body mass index (I won!!!)

Post by lotsofphil » Tue Sep 27, 2011 8:31 pm

Couch to marathon in 16 weeks says be super careful with injuries. 26 miles is a long way :)

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Re: Raccoon vs the body mass index (I won!!!)

Post by Raccoon » Wed Sep 28, 2011 12:07 pm

I'm not too sure about stress fractures & overtraining either, Nardo. I think the important thing is to learn the signals that your body is sending and to pay attention to them -- particularly the difference between soreness from a good workout versus pain from injury. I'm sure you're aware of that. Still, it can be hard to ignore the desire to push through the pain. I had to force myself to walk, not run, when I was feeling a shooting pain in my upper right leg a few months ago.

Also, from what I've heard, marathon running/training tends to cause far more injuries than shorter distances, even half marathons.
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Re: Raccoon vs the body mass index (I won!!!)

Post by lotsofphil » Thu Sep 29, 2011 11:00 am

Raccoon wrote: Also, from what I've heard, marathon running/training tends to cause far more injuries than shorter distances, even half marathons.
I've run many half-marathons and had no issues at all (before, during or after). I ran one marathon and would require major arm twisting to run another. Very different races. And I had a lot of injury issues after the marathon (tendonitis in both feet).

Also also, making a running thread is awesome! Hope you don't mind derailing, raccoon.

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Re: Raccoon vs the body mass index (I won!!!)

Post by NardoLoopa » Thu Sep 29, 2011 11:17 pm

It's amazing what a full day of rest, a good meal, and a cool night will do for you. I ran 7m tonight 9:12 pace after playing volleyball for an hour (we crushed the other team). The route was good with slow inclines and no brutal hills. I felt like I could go around again for another lap. I didn't because it was already midnight and even though I'm a sucker for over doing it, I know better -- and my nipples were soar as hell (even after I lubed up before the run -- cold night).

Then again, I think part of the pleasure of the run was just that it was night-time. I wonder if there are any marathons that start at 9pm or later?

Hey, LoP, which marathon did you run?
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Re: Raccoon vs the body mass index (I won!!!)

Post by top1214 » Thu Sep 29, 2011 11:34 pm

Isn't there nip tape out there?

There are, ~$2/run.

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Re: Raccoon vs the body mass index (I won!!!)

Post by Verdigris97 » Thu Sep 29, 2011 11:46 pm

top1214 wrote:~$2/run.
Not if you never remove them...

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Re: Raccoon vs the body mass index (I won!!!)

Post by Raccoon » Fri Sep 30, 2011 1:07 am

NardoLoopa wrote:It's amazing what a full day of rest, a good meal, and a cool night will do for you. I ran 7m tonight 9:12 pace after playing volleyball for an hour (we crushed the other team). The route was good with slow inclines and no brutal hills. I felt like I could go around again for another lap. I didn't because it was already midnight and even though I'm a sucker for over doing it, I know better -- and my nipples were soar as hell (even after I lubed up before the run -- cold night).
Nice job, Nardo! That's really impressive considering how recently you've started running again.
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Re: Raccoon vs the body mass index (I won!!!)

Post by lotsofphil » Fri Sep 30, 2011 7:37 am

NardoLoopa wrote: Hey, LoP, which marathon did you run?
New York City marathon in 2003. Maybe '04. '04 sounds a little more likely... A while ago :)

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Re: Raccoon vs the body mass index (I won!!!)

Post by NardoLoopa » Fri Sep 30, 2011 8:09 am

Oh, very classy!
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Re: Raccoon vs the body mass index (I won!!!)

Post by lotsofphil » Fri Sep 30, 2011 2:09 pm

It was an awesome setting, for sure.

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Re: Raccoon vs the body mass index (I won!!!)

Post by NardoLoopa » Fri Sep 30, 2011 4:28 pm

Care to describe the injuries? Was it in the training? Or the race? Suggestions on what to do differently?

I've recently learned that I should probably do some weight training (squats and stuff) to build up Quad and knee str. I'm not really happy about this, since I find lifting extremely boring. But it will give me something to do in the off days.

I actually had to print out pictures of the techniques, since about as advanced as I usually get is the bench-press and military presses.
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Re: Raccoon vs the body mass index (I won!!!)

Post by Raccoon » Fri Sep 30, 2011 5:21 pm

NardoLoopa wrote:Care to describe the injuries? Was it in the training? Or the race? Suggestions on what to do differently?

I've recently learned that I should probably do some weight training (squats and stuff) to build up Quad and knee str. I'm not really happy about this, since I find lifting extremely boring. But it will give me something to do in the off days.

I actually had to print out pictures of the techniques, since about as advanced as I usually get is the bench-press and military presses.
Nardo, I hate weight lifting too, so I limit myself to upper body stuff, and even though, I don't think I'm doing nearly as much as I should. I struggle to put in 15 minutes, twice a week, before heading over to the treadmill. I also use the ab wheel a few times a week, and I guess that includes a bit of arm work.

For lower body weight training, have you thought about the stairmaster? 45 minutes on that thing will give your leg muscles quite a bit more of a workout than running does. Or cycling? Where I live, it's very hilly, so biking to campus (only 3 miles on way) gives me a bit of a leg workout.
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Re: Raccoon vs the body mass index (I won!!!)

Post by lotsofphil » Fri Sep 30, 2011 5:44 pm

NardoLoopa wrote:Care to describe the injuries? Was it in the training? Or the race? Suggestions on what to do differently?

I've recently learned that I should probably do some weight training (squats and stuff) to build up Quad and knee str. I'm not really happy about this, since I find lifting extremely boring. But it will give me something to do in the off days.

I actually had to print out pictures of the techniques, since about as advanced as I usually get is the bench-press and military presses.
I had some weird abdominal pain for months leading up to the race. I could run, it just hurt. The first moments of a sit-up, the initial contraction of abs, hurt. (You do this, kind of, every step you run). I eventually just ran through it after babying it and it not getting better. My dad's advice was "run. if you make it worse, then it will be easier to diagnose".
I took (hazy memory) 2-3 weeks off completely after the race. Then I went swimming. I pushed off the wall and had an agonizing pain in one of my feet. Went to the doc and they said tendonitis, rest. Later, after resuming running, same pain, other foot. Both went away with a couple weeks of rest. I also got pneumonia about 7 weeks later. Not sure if it was related. I am generally in very good health. Have never been ill like that before.

As for lifting, I noticed that if I did leg exercises (squats, deadlifts, leg extensions, ham curls, etc) while running a lot, my legs got really strong, really fast. They also got "big" as in bulky. I didn't like that, so I stopped.
If you don't like lifting, you should at least do some core work (crunches, planks, leg lifts, whatever).

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Re: Raccoon vs the body mass index (I won!!!)

Post by NardoLoopa » Sun Oct 02, 2011 9:55 am

Yesterday I hit the gym for some squats and lunges. I'm pretty sure I'm doing the stiff leg dead lift completely wrong -- might save that for later. For the squats they had this annoying rail system that locks the bar in to only vertical movement. I need to look for something a bit more free of moment, because I'm looking to work stabilizers. I think I need to print out pictures from the internet on form before I hurt myself. The 4mil run afterword was a bit rough for the first 2 until I hit a stride.

But then I was teaching chess to a kid a local coffee house while waiting for my buddy to come back from a smoke break. There's a medal hanging around his neck that I ask about. The 8yo's mom chimes in an says he just ran today's 5k race in 27mins . . . and then went to soccer practice.

*sigh*

You know, I can take being smoked by the college kids. Even the teens. But the 8yos and hard-core grandmas are the ones that really get me down.

Actually, the HC grandmas are pretty inspiring -- you go girl!
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Re: Raccoon vs the body mass index (I won!!!)

Post by Raccoon » Sun Oct 02, 2011 1:26 pm

NardoLoopa wrote:But then I was teaching chess to a kid a local coffee house while waiting for my buddy to come back from a smoke break. There's a medal hanging around his neck that I ask about. The 8yo's mom chimes in an says he just ran today's 5k race in 27mins . . . and then went to soccer practice.

*sigh*

You know, I can take being smoked by the college kids. Even the teens. But the 8yos and hard-core grandmas are the ones that really get me down.

Actually, the HC grandmas are pretty inspiring -- you go girl!
:lol:

At first, I misread that as that the kid had run 5 miles in 27 minutes, which made me think, "Yikes!" I mean, 5K in 27 minutes still sounds impressive for an 8 year old -- my older son is 7 years old, and I think for their art fundraiser race last year, he ran 10 laps in 30 minutes, so 5K would take him about 37 minutes(?).
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Re: Speed (running & exercise)

Post by NardoLoopa » Sun Oct 02, 2011 3:01 pm

Thanks whoever split the thread.

Well, just finished 10.5 miles. 10:20 pace total -- which was detrimentally affected by stomach cramps until I could make a diarrhea break :( (about a mile at 12min pace). After that pace picked up to around 9:30 for the last 2 miles.

In any case, longest I've ever run except for one time in NJ when I accidentally ran 12 miles due to getting caught in an engineering loop w/o a sane exit condition*.

* [ I was running around a 1 mile lake. After about 5 miles I promised myself that if it started to rain on the next lap I'd do another. Well, it did. Then it stopped. Then it rained again. Then it stopped. . . . 12miles later it finally stopped. ]
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Re: Speed (running & exercise)

Post by deusnoctum » Sun Oct 02, 2011 10:38 pm

I only just saw this thread, so I'm going to bunch up responses:
  • Runkeeper and Fitocracy are both great. If you have accounts on both services, you can go to the settings page on Fitocracy and connect it to Runkeeper, so it will add your runs from Runkeeper.
  • I have invites on Fitocracy also if anyone wants one. Else, you can follow me (username MemberFDIC). Any interest in an AFH group?
  • Boo for treadmills. Better than running outside when it's twenty degrees, but only marginally.
  • I've just started running, kind of. I managed to sprain my foot running after just a few weeks of the Couch to 5K program, had to take a couple of months off, and am now back to it. Finding time to run more than 2-3 times a week is kind of tough due to my schedule, but I'm still improving rapidly. Yesterday, I ran an entire 5K without stopping for the first time (28:46). My end goal is to do it in under 20 minutes. I still haven't done anything longer than 5k; if the weather holds up, my current goal is 10k by the end of October.

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Re: Speed (running & exercise)

Post by Raccoon » Mon Oct 03, 2011 12:22 am

Welcome to the thread, Mr. Noctum! And congrats on that 5K run, already under 9 min. per mile.

5K under 20:00 is also my goal, but it's a tough nut to crack. My 3 miles in under 21 minutes run the other day is still about 90 seconds off a sub-20:00 5K, and I can tell you, that run felt more labored than my recent 6:20 single mile.
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Re: Speed (running & exercise)

Post by Atrophied » Tue Oct 04, 2011 5:22 am

I don't do running due to a badly broken ankle earlier in the year. It's still not solid enough for anything more than a light, short jog.

As a coach for the Provincial Junior Climbing Team here in Newfoundland, I heavily advocate both running and swimming as endurance and cross-training exercises, though.

For myself, I've been focusing on my upper body, finger/forearm, and core strength until my ankle's healed well enough to get back to pounding trails. If anyone's interested in workouts that build muscle without building bulk, let me know and I'll be happy to share some of what I use.*

*Note that some of these are not for the faint of heart. I use them to train a team of 12-18 yr olds that routinely come home with multiple gold medals across their respective age categories. (Pluralisation there is weird... someone tell me how that works grammatically?)

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Re: Speed (running & exercise)

Post by NardoLoopa » Tue Oct 04, 2011 6:20 am

Atro, I'd love to hear your routine.

I broke my foot a few years ago. Doc said it would be 4 months for full recovery. I told him that when I was 16 I broke my hand and that it was only 8 weeks for recovery. He said, "Hmm. Right. Well, are you 16?" "No." "Then 4 months."

Of course, after I healed I asked about running. The doc said, "You should only increase your road workout by 10% each week." "Uhm, but what's 10% of nothing?" "Start with no more than a mile."

Anyway, broken feet/ankles suck.
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Re: Speed (running & exercise)

Post by NardoLoopa » Tue Oct 04, 2011 11:12 am

deusnoctum wrote:I have invites on Fitocracy also if anyone wants one. Else, you can follow me (username MemberFDIC). Any interest in an AFH group?
I created a KoL group for Fitocracy -- we can change to AFH if you like. If people need invites etc, let me know. I think it should be open to join, though.
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Re: Speed (running & exercise)

Post by deusnoctum » Tue Oct 04, 2011 11:49 am

NardoLoopa wrote:I created a KoL group for Fitocracy -- we can change to AFH if you like. If people need invites etc, let me know. I think it should be open to join, though.
Might as well change it to AFH, I think, since there was already a KoL group:
http://www.fitocracy.com/group/1421/

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Re: Speed (running & exercise)

Post by Atrophied » Tue Oct 04, 2011 4:08 pm

This is a daily workout that all members of our team do:

Note that they all assume a base fitness level required to actually get onto our competitive team.

Body conditioning

This stage consists of two exercises for increased physical strength. This stage will become part of your everyday life. It is a conditioning exercise to bring you up to a higher level of general fitness and then to maintain that level. You will likely feel stiff after the first day even though these exercises take less then half an hour to perform. You must do these exercises everyday regardless of muscle fatigue or baby tears (the point is to condition your body to accept this as the norm.) As you will see when you start out; the number of each exercise I will ask you to do is quite small. This is done to ensure you have adequate strength to perform each task correctly. You will have to increase the number of each exercise you do as your body adapts, I'll set guidelines for that. Also, there is a limit that will be set. Once this limit is reached it shall be maintained, remember this is for general conditioning of the body, to make it tight and strong for whatever tasks you ask of it.

Exercise 1: Pyramid of press power (AKA push-ups)

This pyramid of push-ups will start at 2 and for each number a different type of push-up will be performed. This exercise will target your shoulders, back and chest. It is also important to maintain a tight core through out, remember you are a board.

These are the three stages of exercise 1:

Stage A: 2-3-4-5-6-7-8-7-6-5-4-3-2 (numbers represent amount of push-ups)
Stage B: 3-4-5-6-7-8-9-8-7-6-5-4-3
Stage C: 4-5-6-7-8-9-10-9-8-7-6-5-4

You will do Stage A until you are ready for Stage B (2 weeks - 20 days) after Stage B becomes comfortable you will move on to the third and final Stage C which will be maintained for as long as you shall live. Each number is assigned a different type of push-up, when moving on to a different stage the type of push-up that you did 2 of in Stage A you will do 3 of in Stage B and 4 of in Stage C. (All push-ups are to be done on your fists to protect your wrists. I recommend a yoga mat for comfort, if you're not used to doing push-ups this way.)

Stage A:

Reps
2- fists together under chest
3- fists shoulder width apart left leg in air (alternate leg on way back down pyramid)
4- right fist above your head, left fist by waist (becomes 5 on the way back down pyramid)
5- left fist above your head, right fist by waist (becomes 4 on the way back down pyramid)
6- fists wide
7- fists tight to you side (bottom of rib cage)
8- fists shoulder width apart (standard push-up)
and now back down!

Move on to Stage B when ready!! you have to push it. Even if you are on the right path to success you can't just stand there.

Exercise 2: Circus Core (aka sit-ups)

The performance increase from a tight core will translate into better footwork and swing control. Let's begin!

There are five stages to exercise 2:

Stage A: 6 reps of each exercise
Stage B: 7 reps
Stage C: 8 reps
Stage D: 9 reps
Stage E: 10 reps

You'll move through these stages quicker then the push-up stages, by the end of the second week I want you on Stage D, once you reach Stage E, 10 reps, maintain.

Stage A: Four parts

Part 1:
Lay on your back arms and legs extended, pull the small of your back into the ground throughout this exercises (it will feel like your pulling your belly button through your stomach).

-Raise arms by curling at the stomach, hands to 1 foot off the ground, lower, repeat 6 times.
-Raise feet a foot off ground, keep back lower back on ground, repeat 6 times.
-Keeping feet raised, raise and lower hands again 6 times.
-keeping hands raised, raise and lower feet again 6 times.
-raise and lower both hands and feet at the same time, 6 times.

Part 2 and 3:
-laying on right side, left arm in front, right extended, raise right arm and shoulder off ground 6 times. (remember to use obliques, curl at kidneys).
- raise both feet off ground 6 times.
- keeping feet raised, raise and lower right arm and shoulder 6 times.
- keeping arm raised, raise and lower feet 6 times.
- raise and lower both feet and hand at the same time, 6 times.

- Repeat above for left side.

Part 4:
- lay on stomach, raise and lower both hands 6 times
- raise and lower both feet 6 times
- keep feet raised and raise and lower hands 6 times.
- keep both hands raised and raise and lower feet 6 times.
- raise and lower both feet and hands 6 times.

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Re: Speed (running & exercise)

Post by Raccoon » Tue Oct 04, 2011 6:31 pm

Um, I guess I will give that a try, Atro.

Also, I ran 7 miles today in just under an hour. 7 miles appear to be the distance where I start to feel the effects of the run for a few hours afterward (as I did with that 10 mile run). 6 mile runs, on the other hand, seem to have no lasting effect at all once I stop running. Does that mean this is a sort of a wall?
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Re: Speed (running & exercise)

Post by Atrophied » Tue Oct 04, 2011 7:23 pm

Let me know how it goes for you. Always good to get more feedback.

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Re: Speed (running & exercise)

Post by NardoLoopa » Mon Oct 10, 2011 8:04 am

Hit 100miles yesterday with my 11mile run. Running about 26miles/week. BMI was down to 23.2 last week.

I'm in South Bend, IN (just saw the ND football massacre against Air Force) and everything is really FLAT! Made the 11 easy -- I had plenty left. Also, there are two lakes to run around for a 2mile loop. Crushed stone paths and plenty of trees gave me infinite-legs. Half the run was in the dark -- which is always interesting since you never really know what your feet are going to land on.

Also tried out a technical wool running shirt. It was 70F, so I'm not sure how well it would do in the cold, but it keep the sweat off me pretty well (the shirt was soaked, but didn't lock in heat like cotton). My friend claims he dries the shirt and wears it for the next workout w/o washing and it never stinks. I'm curious about that. Personally, I find tech-polyester picks up a permanent funk after a while -- no matter how you wash it.
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Re: Speed (running & exercise)

Post by Raccoon » Mon Oct 10, 2011 3:17 pm

NardoLoopa wrote:Hit 100miles yesterday with my 11mile run. Running about 26miles/week. BMI was down to 23.2 last week.

I'm in South Bend, IN (just saw the ND football massacre against Air Force) and everything is really FLAT! Made the 11 easy -- I had plenty left. Also, there are two lakes to run around for a 2mile loop. Crushed stone paths and plenty of trees gave me infinite-legs. Half the run was in the dark -- which is always interesting since you never really know what your feet are going to land on.

Also tried out a technical wool running shirt. It was 70F, so I'm not sure how well it would do in the cold, but it keep the sweat off me pretty well (the shirt was soaked, but didn't lock in heat like cotton). My friend claims he dries the shirt and wears it for the next workout w/o washing and it never stinks. I'm curious about that. Personally, I find tech-polyester picks up a permanent funk after a while -- no matter how you wash it.
That's pretty awesome, Nardo!

Flatland -- ah, now you guys may understand one of my reasons for preferring the treadmill. Lots of hills here in the Pacific Northwest, not to mention, rain 8 months out of the year. I'm already kind of screwed up when it comes to biking; I've been brainwashed into some kind of masochism where flat riding is boring.
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Re: Speed (running & exercise)

Post by NardoLoopa » Thu Oct 27, 2011 9:39 pm

Well, some cool and unfortunate news to report:

About 2 weeks ago I went out for a 12mile with a friend. I planned the route to hit water spots and to do some local hills we usually avoid. A few days before my right knee felt a bit wonky -- but I attributed it to the slanted road I had to run on. When we started on the 12 the knee was letting me know it was there, but as long as my form held it was only a small bother. I'd also just read "Born to Run" and so was forefoot striking for the first time (usually mid-foot). I'd warmed up really well and drank some gel before the run. I think there was cocaine in it -- I felt great.

It was supposed to be our LSD (Long Slow Distance) run, but we were both feeling great and moving at a 9:05 - 9:30 pace. Really too fast. But it was conversational.

On the hills I didn't slow at all. I felt like I was eating them up. Just 6 weeks before I was walking after small hills. This time I was lunging up them.

At mile 6 my partner noticed I was limping on the bad knee. I focused on form and sorted it out.

At mile 7 we stopped for water. I felt great. I felt better than when we started. 5 more miles? Hell, let's do 7! I wasn't winded or tired or fatigued. I think it's the first time I've ever really experience something I might call "runner's high". Damn euphoric, I tell you.

But here's the turn. When we set out my knee was stiff. Years of sports let me know this is not a "work through the pain" thing. So I walked home.

I've been off the knee (running) for about two weeks with only 2 jogs in between. I'm trying to hit the gym and do all the leg exercise machines out there -- along with a series of exercises from Runner's World. And in this two weeks I got pretty damn irritable and depressed. Tonight I ran 1.5 w/o issue.

I'm going to ramp up slowly this time.

Running is such a weird sport -- never have I done a sport where everyone implores you to go slow. Usually, your improvement is gauged by your gut and determination to put in the work.

(btw: I ran about 5 of the 7 on the fore-foot: my calves were rocks for the next week -- but that's a good hurt, unlike the knee thing).
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Re: Speed (running & exercise)

Post by Raccoon » Fri Oct 28, 2011 1:19 am

I hope you get back into it without trouble, Nardo. I should probably do some leg exercises too. Up to now, I've sort of assumed that running/cycling was enough leg work, but I've been reading the very long distance running can fatigue the muscles to the point where they don't absorb shock as much, which means your joints and bones are getting more impact. My racing goal is 5K distance, but apparently I need to be doing those LSD runs as well, at least up to 12 miles.
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Re: Speed (running & exercise)

Post by NardoLoopa » Fri Oct 28, 2011 6:54 am

This is what I do when I can't make it to the gym:
http://www.runnersworld.com/video/1,805 ... 0735593001

At the gym I just do all the leg machines. I'm also dabbling in Barbell Squats, Dumbbell Lunges, and Dead Lifts. But I'm not very good at them.

BTW - to those who lift weights: when you lift do you increase your weight after each set? A friend recommends doing things like: 80, 90, 100 as the 3 reps. The idea is to "warm up your muscles". First I've heard of it.

I'm not very enthusiastic about lifting, to be honest. I'm only doing it to prevent injury. I'd much rather do a second LSD per week instead. Alas, reality is against me.
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Re: Speed (running & exercise)

Post by zombiepops » Fri Oct 28, 2011 8:39 am

NardoLoopa wrote: BTW - to those who lift weights: when you lift do you increase your weight after each set? A friend recommends doing things like: 80, 90, 100 as the 3 reps. The idea is to "warm up your muscles". First I've heard of it.
I was told either increase the weight or increase the number in each rep (ie 10, 12,14 is my three reps).
I'm brainy for Zombiepops!

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Re: Speed (running & exercise)

Post by deusnoctum » Fri Oct 28, 2011 12:12 pm

NardoLoopa wrote:BTW - to those who lift weights: when you lift do you increase your weight after each set? A friend recommends doing things like: 80, 90, 100 as the 3 reps. The idea is to "warm up your muscles". First I've heard of it.
I actually decrease weight after each set. Do some reps on a pretty low weight (even empty bar) as a warm-up, and then take weight off each set (eg., 45, 150, 145, 140). Idea being that you'll be able to lift the most (hence getting the most benefit) while your muscles are still fresh. This works best if you already have a good idea of the weight you're able to lift at; I find I tend to overdo it and lift too much if I start out thinking "I'll give this weight a try, since I'm just going to take weight off later."

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Re: Speed (running & exercise)

Post by Raccoon » Mon Oct 31, 2011 10:35 pm

Today I ran 7 miles in 54:58, which is about 7:51 per mile. This is kind of funny, because it means that my 7-mile time on the treadmill is actually better than the outdoor, semi-hilly 5K race I ran on the weekend, when I had a disappointing time of 25:12, or 8:07 per mile.

In any event, 8 min/mile is getting to feel like an indefinitely sustainable pace, at least on the treadmill. I'm trying to build up to 12 miles. Oh, and I think I'm going to sign up for one of those turkey trots. I may have gotten bitten by the racing bug.
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Re: Speed (running & exercise)

Post by NardoLoopa » Tue Nov 01, 2011 7:05 am

Raccoon wrote:Oh, and I think I'm going to sign up for one of those turkey trots. I may have gotten bitten by the racing bug.
Woohoo!

BTW: you know they don't hold races on treadmills, right? You're going to have to hit the streets one of these days.

Too bad I'll be in San Fransisco on T-day -- the local Trot looks fun. Only 5K, but still.

Not sure why your time is so bad on the 5k. I did a 5K back in June from the couch. Walked a good bit of it. And it was all hill. Managed an 8:25 pace. Which really surprises me now, since I had shit-legs and lungs then. Not that it would take a 3 minutes off your time or anything, but did the race have personal starting lines (sensor in your bib that times you form when you cross the starting line, rather than when the gun goes off)?
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Re: Speed (running & exercise)

Post by NardoLoopa » Tue Nov 01, 2011 7:07 am

Oh, and in my datageek pursuits I found a running site that hosts a bit more info for runners: www.RunningAHEAD.com It keeps track of a few things I really like: PRs and Mileage on shoes.
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Re: Speed (running & exercise)

Post by NardoLoopa » Wed Nov 02, 2011 6:04 am

For those joining AFH/k on Fitocracy: http://xkcd.com/940/
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Re: Speed (running & exercise)

Post by deusnoctum » Wed Nov 02, 2011 10:48 am

NardoLoopa wrote:For those joining AFH/k on Fitocracy: http://xkcd.com/940/
Are you propositioning us?

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Re: Speed (running & exercise)

Post by Eigenbasis » Wed Nov 02, 2011 9:01 pm

That comic was how I found out about Fitocracy in the first place.
"Have you ever heard the expression, ‘When life gives you lemons, make lemonade, and then throw it in the face of the person who gave you the lemons until they give you the oranges you originally asked for?’"

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Re: Speed (running & exercise)

Post by Atrophied » Wed Nov 02, 2011 9:34 pm

NardoLoopa wrote:BTW - to those who lift weights: when you lift do you increase your weight after each set? A friend recommends doing things like: 80, 90, 100 as the 3 reps. The idea is to "warm up your muscles". First I've heard of it.
I do pyramids. Start light and end light, with your max weight in the middle. Decrease reps as you increase weight, then increase again on the way back down the pyramid.

This way you get a decent warm-up for your muscles and aren't over-straining them on the high weights, while still building strength. This is for conditioning, not for bulking, I assume. (Focusing on stabilizer muscle groups?)

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Re: Speed (running & exercise)

Post by NardoLoopa » Wed Nov 02, 2011 10:02 pm

Atrophied wrote:This way you get a decent warm-up for your muscles and aren't over-straining them on the high weights, while still building strength. This is for conditioning, not for bulking, I assume. (Focusing on stabilizer muscle groups?)
Yep, stabilizer muscles -- I do the leg machines, mostly. Soon I'm going to add squats and lunges. I've adopted the 5x5 idea with progression in the first 2 sets. A, A+10, A+20, A+20, A+20. All sets of 5 reps. (I obviously have little idea what I'm doing).

I went to a track nearby at a local middle school. I timed 4 laps, which should be a mile. Hit 5:03. That's almost as fast as I was in high school (4:48). Had me very happy, but scratching my head.

So I talked to the gym teacher. She said it's not 400m. It's just large enough to fit a soccer pitch in the middle.

Google says my pace was more: 6:15. Ah well. Still under my goal of 6:30. Now I just gotta find a regulation track nearby -- preferably a soft rubberized one.
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Re: Speed (running & exercise)

Post by Raccoon » Fri Nov 04, 2011 6:46 pm

Are you guys running, so to speak, into the problem of losing too much weight? I realize it's generally the species of problem that tends not to engender sympathy, kind of like having too much money, but . . . today, after running 7 miles, I checked the scale and hit 140(!) lbs, which is a stunningly low 20.1 body mass index. Now, this is before I rehydrated, so it's not a true weight measure, but it's still a bit ghastly. On the plus side, I was able to go enjoy a Wendy's cheeseburger and medium size fries (950 calories, mmm).
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Re: Speed (running & exercise)

Post by NardoLoopa » Fri Nov 04, 2011 9:29 pm

I was watching the NOVA special on marathoning (where they pick a few couch potatoes and train them for 9 mo to run Boston). An MD, who specializes in studying the marathon's affects on the body, curiously answers why most of the overweight participants are not losing weight despite the training. She says that counter to common beliefs, running does not burn all that many calories. For example, she says, a marathon only burns about 2x your normal daily intake. The one woman who loses 40lbs during the training, the doctor says, is doing so because of the addition of her diet and bootcamp workout program.

I found the whole think rather curious, as I am certainly dropping weight due to running.

I also had problems gaining/keeping weight in college when I tried going full vegetarian. But that was more a case of not being able to eat enough salad to sustain my caloric expenditure. One guy had the same problem and used to down Ensure(tm) with dinner.
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Re: Speed (running & exercise)

Post by NardoLoopa » Sat Nov 05, 2011 9:23 am

So, I ran a 5K today just to establish a reasonable baseline. My last "PR", which was in June and run from the couch, was 26:07. I'm amazed it was that fast because I walked a good long way.

Today, in 40F and with lots of the typical hills in the area, I ran 23:06 (unofficial). I thought I could manage negative splits, but I took off way too early: 7:14 first mile. 7:28 second. I think the third was around 7:45 -- I don't have a fancy watch yet to give me any accuracy. I had loads left in the tank, so I should have pushed it more for the last part, but the finish line snuck up on me.

Anyway, I'd say that's about 7 weeks of training, with a big 2 week rest period before the last week of training.

I'm reading "The Competitive Runner's Handbook" mostly for training ideas and stuff. It has some charts on times for age groups. My time puts me in the 60th percentile for men of my age group or "Competitor". The desc says: "This is the highest level of competition most runners can achieve because of limited natural ability, or lack of time or discipline." Need to get under 21mins to "level up".

Sounds like a good challenge.
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Re: Speed (running & exercise)

Post by lotsofphil » Sat Nov 05, 2011 11:10 am

In short races like a 5k pacing is a big deal. You're actually running pretty fast, so the line between race pace and too fast is important. I think the best way to get it is just by running lots of races. But if you're going for a marathon, I wouldn't think too much about 5k times (unless you chain 8 of them together :) )

Raccoon, I never had a problem with weight loss, but I think that is because I am more muscular than what I think of as a runners build. Maybe you can try some more exercises to build muscle mass if you are concerned (either sprints or weight lifting come to mind). Or atro's mighty workout of power. That said, unless you dislike the way you look or are concerned about injury/health I don't see the problem. Or do like Nardo said and just eat more (hopefully more good food, not more bacon).

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Re: Speed (running & exercise)

Post by Raccoon » Sun Nov 06, 2011 5:00 pm

@Nardo: Nice job!

@Phil: Well, I don't think I'm emaciated or anything, although a colleague of mine did remark on Friday, when I took my jacket off, that he didn't realize how thin I am. Mrs. Raccoon still complains on occasion that I'm too thin.
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Re: Speed (running & exercise)

Post by lotsofphil » Mon Nov 07, 2011 11:20 am

Tell her you are auditioning for "The Machinist 2: Raccoon Ex Machina"

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Re: Speed (running & exercise)

Post by NardoLoopa » Thu Nov 17, 2011 10:50 pm

Okay, knee danger period is over (touch wood). Been slowly ramping up my miles again. Trying to get to the gym 2x a week to work on leg strength to help the knee. Need to work in some upper body (Also, almost killed myself trying to bench 130lbs. I was way too tired for that. Had to roll the bar off my stomach -- that was fun).

Anyway, things are going well. 175miles since I got off the couch. So I signed up for the Shamrock marathon in March. It's around Mrs. Loopa's B-day, so we're going to make a weekend of it.

My goal is a 3:45 time. I know that's pretty ambitious for my first, but shoot stars/hit moon. http://www.mcmillanrunning.com/index.ph ... calculator thinks I can do it based on my 5k.

Now that Rac busted out a 6min/mile I need to find a track where I can work those 15seconds off my time.
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Re: Speed (running & exercise)

Post by NardoLoopa » Sun Nov 20, 2011 4:52 pm

I'm here in SF and it's frigg'n raining. :/ Going to save my LSD for tomorrow. Not sure where to run, but Golden Gate Park looks good on the map. I'm near a cube-museum south of Market.

I had to log 5 today on the dreadmill. Forgot how unpleasant it is compared to the street.

I'll be running with my Saber-toothed Lime shirt Monday and maybe Tuesday. If you see me say Hi.
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Re: Speed (running & exercise)

Post by NardoLoopa » Mon Nov 21, 2011 5:56 pm

Holy crap, SF has HILLS! 11miles (lots of getting lost)
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Re: Speed (running & exercise)

Post by lotsofphil » Mon Nov 28, 2011 9:50 am

NardoLoopa wrote:Holy crap, SF has HILLS! 11miles (lots of getting lost)
I recommend Ocean Isle Beach as a counterpoint then :) About 6 miles end to end (guessing based on my runs) with a bridge to the mainland in the middle. I thought "that bridge will make a nice hill". Once on the bridge I thought "the shoulder sure is narrow, I hope not many cars come by" and "the wall on the side of the bridge sure is short, don't look left" :)

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Re: Speed (running & exercise)

Post by NardoLoopa » Mon Nov 28, 2011 4:30 pm

Hit a new lifetime long distance record: 14 miles on Sunday. Previous longest distance was 12miles about 10 years ago. Of course, back then I did the 12 pretty much from the couch.

What you can do in your 20s is a gift; after that you gotta earn it.
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Re: Speed (running & exercise)

Post by Raccoon » Mon Nov 28, 2011 5:14 pm

NardoLoopa wrote:What you can do in your 20s is a gift; after that you gotta earn it.
Wait until you get to your 40s. :roll:
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Re: Speed (running & exercise)

Post by NardoLoopa » Sat Dec 10, 2011 9:46 am

A little over a year until I hit the "Masters" group, Rac. Can't wait. Maybe I can take home some local winnings by then.

Hit a new PR in the 5k today. 22:00 flat. 1 minute under my last PR a month ago. 4min under the one I did in June. Easier hills today than either of the other races. Trail was wet and muddy, though. However, a major improvement I made in pre-race prep this time: I jogged 2miles before the race (9:30 pace).

6:46, 7:21, 7:25 splits. Not what I planned. Some idiots with dogs and little kids started in the front of the throng. Had a 5:20 pace for the first third of a mile just get out in front of them before a pinch turn. The plan was 7:15, 7:00, 6:45. . . obviously over ambitious, but not too far off my 7:08 avg pace.

I bought a Garmin 610 GPS watch. It was a great investment. I can now see my paces and heart-rate (via chest strap). Totally changes the way I train because now I see when I'm working too hard, or schluffing off. My avg HR for the race was around 172. So, I'm pretty sure 22:00 is close to my max at my current fitness. I certainly didn't feel like I left much on the table this time.
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klyth
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Re: Speed (running & exercise)

Post by klyth » Tue Dec 13, 2011 11:06 am

How are your deadlifts going, Nardo?

Get more comfortable with them? Deadlifts & squats are the foundation of a good leg workout. Its important to do them correctly, though. Deadlifts, especially.

When you start pulling up 300+ lbs, there's a very real risk of hurting your back.
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deusnoctum
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Re: Speed (running & exercise)

Post by deusnoctum » Tue Dec 13, 2011 12:37 pm

klyth wrote:When you start pulling up 300+ lbs, there's a very real risk of hurting your back.
QFT. My little brother recently injured his back deadlifting 360 lbs. Fortunately it was apparently not a very serious or permanent injury, but he's been unable to work out at all for about six weeks now.

Also, having a heart rate monitor has been extremely helpful for me, as I have a tendency to overexert myself for the first mile or so and then feel like death afterwards. My girlfriend next understood why she was only able to run for five minutes at a time, until I bought her one and pointed out that a heart rate pushing 200 isn't something that can be kept up for long...

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NardoLoopa
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Re: Speed (running & exercise)

Post by NardoLoopa » Tue Dec 13, 2011 1:13 pm

Since I don't have a friend to advise me on deadlifts, and I was pretty sure that, even after watching YouTube and bringing print-outs of form that I was doing it wrong, I decided to stop. Instead I'm doing Goblet Squats. I find them very easy technique-wise.

Other that that I do the leg-machine loop with its leg-squat chair. I also do weighted lunges -- which I really hate.

Unfortunately, in the last two weeks I've been working 7am to 11:30pm. So the only things I can really sneak in are my runs (while the gym closes, the roads never do).

Haven't weighed myself since Thanksgiving until today. Found out my BMI is down to: 22.6. So I'm under my 'goal'. But I think I could safely get down to 21.7 (dead middle of 'normal') and be fine. Unlikely over the holiday anyway, so I'm not worried.

deus: a cheap HR monitor is to watch your breathing. If you can't keep up a conversation without gasping, you're running too hard for distance. 200 bpm? Ah, to be 20 again.

Also, I looked at the race results from the 5k. I came in 5th in my age-group. Which sounds impressive until you realize the next age-group up smoked everyone in my age-group.
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lotsofphil
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Re: Speed (running & exercise)

Post by lotsofphil » Tue Dec 13, 2011 1:41 pm

NardoLoopa wrote: deus: a cheap HR monitor is to watch your breathing. If you can't keep up a conversation without gasping, you're running too hard for distance. 200 bpm? Ah, to be 20 again.
I am not so sure on this. I've never used a heart rate monitor but have done a lot of tempo running (i.e. 85% max, etc). It is tough to know on a hard run exactly how hard you should be going. I'd have loved to be able to verify my "feelings". If you can't chat on a jog, too fast. But if you *can* chat on a workout run, tsk tsk :)

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